Hi,

A previous email mentioned the new "install" requester that comes up
right after you enter your registration details. The question was if it
was really needed.

Probably not on the Amiga, but maybe. PageStream now tries to be a
"write-locked" bundle, meaning that you should have no cause to ever
write (or directly read from) the PageStream executable folder. The
Amiga doesn't really have a structured concept of "user documents" and
"application folder" and "administrator" etc, but the rest of the world
does. This is just a part of PageStream trying to fit into the rest of
the world without have a big installer etc. On all of the platforms I am
trying to make it that you can simple decompress and run. No install.
The "install" dialog will probably grow some and be customized for
differant platforms at some point. Like on Windows giving the option to
add a short cut to the start menu or assign .pgs to the executable.

The ultimate goal is to provide some "installer" like functionality
without requiring it. You can install by hand, let PageStream copy and
setup things, or skip it all together.

I did notice that I need better defaults for the Amiga. ~/Documents
won't really cut it. The Amiga doesn't really have a concept of a user
home folder (~). Any ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or should
I just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my first instinct).

Deron

--
Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

Hello PageStream

On 29/05/2009, PageStream Support wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A previous email mentioned the new "install" requester that comes up
> right after you enter your registration details. The question was if
> it was really needed.
>
> Probably not on the Amiga, but maybe. PageStream now tries to be a
> "write-locked" bundle, meaning that you should have no cause to ever
> write (or directly read from) the PageStream executable folder. The
> Amiga doesn't really have a structured concept of "user documents" and
> "application folder" and "administrator" etc, but the rest of the
> world does.

Yes, but it isn't very useful as it tends to leave you with data files
on the System partition. I find it better to use a separate hard drive,
or at least a separate partition, for data.

It is also messy to put user-installed programs on the System partition.
One should be able to update the OS without going near the programs or
the data.

So IMO it is useful for PGS on any platform to have a pointer from
wherever it is itself (in my case, on a Programs partition) to wherever
the PGS documents are kept. They can take up a lot of space, so you
don't really want them on the Programs partition.

> This is just a part of PageStream trying to fit into the
> rest of the world without have a big installer etc. On all of the
> platforms I am trying to make it that you can simple decompress and
> run. No install. The "install" dialog will probably grow some and be
> customized for differant platforms at some point. Like on Windows
> giving the option to add a short cut to the start menu or assign .pgs
> to the executable.
>
> The ultimate goal is to provide some "installer" like functionality
> without requiring it. You can install by hand, let PageStream copy and
> setup things, or skip it all together.
>
Good goal.

> I did notice that I need better defaults for the Amiga. ~/Documents
> won't really cut it.

No. It becomes a gigantic folder which needs to be on another partition.

> The Amiga doesn't really have a concept of a user
> home folder (~). Any ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or
> should I just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my first
> instinct).
>
Skip it.

Regards
--
Don Cox
doncox@enterprise.net

Deron,

> I did notice that I need better defaults for the Amiga.
> ~/Documents won't really cut it. The Amiga doesn't
> really have a concept of a user home folder (~). Any
> ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or should I
> just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my
> first instinct).

Id' say skip it. I think most Amiga users have had
multi-partition setups pretty much "forever." It would seem
most natural to just let us define our own locations for
data within the usual dialogue box.

Snoopy logs sent on latest alpha release in a private email.

--
--
--
Paul Zager

Proud Builder of Frankenthousand, the monster A1000
'030@50MHz, 2 megs chip/32 megs fast, 2 hard drives, OS 3.9
4xSCSI CD-ROM, SyJet, 56kHayes, 19" flicker free display

"Bride of Frankenthousand" A4000 Gave her life for her young

The Young Frankenthousand AmigaOne G4-XE, ATI Radeon 9250,
Catweasel, 512 MB . . . now running OS4.1

Don Cox wrote:
> Hello PageStream
>
> On 29/05/2009, PageStream Support wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A previous email mentioned the new "install" requester that comes up
>> right after you enter your registration details. The question was if
>> it was really needed.
>>
>> Probably not on the Amiga, but maybe. PageStream now tries to be a
>> "write-locked" bundle, meaning that you should have no cause to ever
>> write (or directly read from) the PageStream executable folder. The
>> Amiga doesn't really have a structured concept of "user documents" and
>> "application folder" and "administrator" etc, but the rest of the
>> world does.
>>
>
> Yes, but it isn't very useful as it tends to leave you with data files
> on the System partition. I find it better to use a separate hard drive,
> or at least a separate partition, for data.
>
> It is also messy to put user-installed programs on the System partition.
> One should be able to update the OS without going near the programs or
> the data.
>
> So IMO it is useful for PGS on any platform to have a pointer from
> wherever it is itself (in my case, on a Programs partition) to wherever
> the PGS documents are kept. They can take up a lot of space, so you
> don't really want them on the Programs partition.
>
>
>

??? PageStream's install dialog, and the default location for files etc,
are all user configurable. If you accept the defaults and it put files
where you didn't want them, who is to blame?

Certainly a good thing to keep system, application and user data
separate. That is what I am trying to encourage. But I can't make anyone
be organized.

I guess I don't understand the point of your post. Sorry!

>
>
>
>> I did notice that I need better defaults for the Amiga. ~/Documents
>> won't really cut it.
>>
>
> No. It becomes a gigantic folder which needs to be on another partition.
>
>

Umm. I'm asking if you have a reasonable default. Certainly on the
Amiga, no default will be perfect. You will have to double check/pick
the appropriate location if you choose to install. I certainly don't
want the default to be sys: because that is not a good place for a
hundred reasons. But no other assign/device is guaranteed to be there.

>
>> The Amiga doesn't really have a concept of a user
>> home folder (~). Any ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or
>> should I just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my first
>> instinct).
>>
>>
> Skip it.
>

As long as you understand the question at hand, I accept one vote apposed!

Deron

> Regards
>

--
Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

> Deron,
>
>
>> I did notice that I need better defaults for the Amiga.
>> ~/Documents won't really cut it. The Amiga doesn't
>> really have a concept of a user home folder (~). Any
>> ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or should I
>> just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my
>> first instinct).
>>
>
> Id' say skip it. I think most Amiga users have had
> multi-partition setups pretty much "forever." It would seem
> most natural to just let us define our own locations for
> data within the usual dialogue box.
>

I guess I didn't make myself clear. Sorry about that. I'll take a simple
shot at explaining this.

PageStream's open document file requester defaults to a location that
you can set in Preferences->Paths. That is where it will send you
initially when you save a document or try and open a new one. That can
be on any partition. PageStream has never cared about that. This is
nothing new, PageStream has done this forever.

Now, the "installation" requester is giving you the option to copy some
sample documents/tutorial files from the PageStream executable directory
to where ever you want. It can be on the same partition, another
partition, or not at all.

Well, I appreciate the feedback, but it appears that I have ill-informed
you all, so I question the validity of the feedback. Not your fault, but
mine.

I'll have to let this sit for a while and hopefully we can come to a
"meeting of the minds" as it were at a later time.

Thanks!

> Snoopy logs sent on latest alpha release in a private email.
>
>

Thanks again!

Deron

--
Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

Hello Don, Deron and All:

A preliminary comment before I respond to some of the input below. I
really appreciate asking for input and sharing how we actually use
PageStream, Deron. That will make the final product much more useful
and intuitive.

On 05/29/2009, you wrote:

> Yes, but it isn't very useful as it tends to leave you with data
> files on the System partition. I find it better to use a separate
> hard drive, or at least a separate partition, for data.

> It is also messy to put user-installed programs on the System
> partition. One should be able to update the OS without going near the
> programs or the data.

> So IMO it is useful for PGS on any platform to have a pointer from
> wherever it is itself (in my case, on a Programs partition) to
> wherever the PGS documents are kept. They can take up a lot of space,
> so you don't really want them on the Programs partition.

I agree with Don. I would prefer the AmigaOS to stop writing to the
system partition altogether. I have always put programs on to a
partition and data on another partition. Given the filesystem
situation of the Amiga some of these have different filesystems as
well. I would like to have as small a system partition as possible.
And Don is correct about how large PageStream files can get over time
and I would want those on a separate partition from the program.

>> The Amiga doesn't really have a concept of a user
>> home folder (~). Any ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or
>> should I just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my
>> first instinct).
>>
> Skip it.

Agreed, skip it. One of the strengths of the Amiga is the ease of
assigns. I prefer as much freedom as possible in dealing with how my
Amiga is structured. Would be different if scripts and assigns were
not so convenient or easy.

> Regards

Talk to you later.
--
Dr. Larry Keller
Levin College of Urban Affairs
Cleveland State University
lkeller100@cox.net

Hello Deron,
On 05/29/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>> The Amiga doesn't really have a concept of a user
>>> home folder (~). Any ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or
>>> should I just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my
>>> first instinct).
>>>
I replied to your questions, Deron, using Don's answer. Apparently
not quite answering what you were asking.

I don't see the need for AmigaOS to have a standard environmental
variable for the location of documents or other similar Windows
standards. Given that, it would be highly useful for the installation
and/or first use of PS to request the setting of those variables. They
should be part of PS Prefs and thus changeable if a user decides to
redo their layout.

Hopefully, this doesn't complicate programming for a variety of
systems. I really like the variability of my AmigaOS and the ease with
which I can design many different possibilities.

Talk to you later.
--
Dr. Larry Keller
Levin College of Urban Affairs
Cleveland State University
lkeller100@cox.net

Hello,

On 29/05/2009, PageStream Support wrote:

> I did notice that I need better defaults for the Amiga. ~/Documents
> won't really cut it. The Amiga doesn't really have a concept of a user
> home folder (~). Any ideas on a default for documents/text/etc or should
> I just skip the entire dialog on the Amiga? (Probably my first instinct).

There was some talk about it by the OS4 team but it was 2 years ago and many things were more important than adding a location for user settings in the OS.
Anyway, when it will come active one day, it will be by using an assign.

I think for now either PROGDIR:mydirectory or any assign you want.

Bye
--
Philippe 'Elwood' FERRUCCI
Project Manager
Amiga Translator Organisation
http://elwoodb.free.fr