Aloha,

OK, I'll admit it.

I'm a newbie.

The attachment I have included is NOT a virus!!!

Hlp_1.doc

It was a cute little Church Newsletter for our Hunian Language Project.

It was made on an Atari.

The fonts don't match, natch.

But I thought that our PGS Windoz would simply go to defaults.

No, CRASH! Boom!

How do I load it into PGS Windoz?

Anyone who tries it should have everything else saved, so that if PGS
crashes, nothing will be hurt.

--
-Lani

I thought this stuff was supposed to use PGS as an extension? Using DOC
just confuses the eminently confuseable Windows into thinking it is an
MS Word document.

So this is a Pagestream 2 file?

Steve

Lani wrote:

> Hlp_1.doc
>
> It was a cute little Church Newsletter for our Hunian Language Project.
>
> It was made on an Atari.
>
> The fonts don't match, natch.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Name: Hlp_1.doc
> Hlp_1.doc Type: Winword File (application/msword)
> Encoding: base64

I thought this stuff was supposed to use PGS as an extension? Using DOC
just confuses the eminently confuseable Windows into thinking it is an
MS Word document.

So this is a Pagestream 2 file?

Steve

Lani wrote:

> Hlp_1.doc
>
> It was a cute little Church Newsletter for our Hunian Language Project.
>
> It was made on an Atari.
>
> The fonts don't match, natch.

I changed the extension, but that made it worse.

If I open PGS (in Windoz) and try to load it as a .doc it seem to know what it is doing. I go through several dialog boxes, and then PGS crashes.

It asks me if I want to use the default fonts. I say yes.

Crash! Burn!

-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom. And boy, am I getting wise!
 

PS: Boy that was a really fast turnaround! I'm impressed.

Yes, I think this was Atari 2.2, at least the last PGS that came out for the Atari.

PGS appended the extension.

You are absolutely correct. When I click on the file it tries (and fails) to open it as a WORD document.

If I'm already in PGS though, there doesn't seem to be a problem.

So, when I removed all the fonts from the file, leaving it just a
template of sorts, I got this just before crash burn:

PAGESTREAM4 caused an invalid page fault in
module PAGESTREAM4.EXE at 015f:004bbeb0.
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=015f EIP=004bbeb0 EFLGS=00010202
EBX=00cf75d0 SS=0167 ESP=0080f390 EBP=00451faa
ECX=0000000a DS=0167 ESI=005a80d0 FS=1a6f
EDX=00000000 ES=0167 EDI=005e77e0 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 08 8d 70 04 83 c4 04 8d 44 08 04 3b f0 89 44
Stack dump:
00000000 00000034 005e6f0e 00000140 005a80d0 000003e8 000003e8 00000000
bff741fb 005c3040 bff54e5c bff814b0 bff814f7 815f1724 005e77e0 7fffffff

Pretty complicated. I hope it can be figured out...

--
-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom. Oh boy!

On 22-May-00, Lani wrote:

>I'm a newbie.
>The attachment I have included is NOT a virus!!!
>How do I load it into PGS Windoz?

Well, it loaded fine into PageStream4.9r5 for the Amiga. The fonts
(listed as FID2A2, FutBlk, Futura Bold, Hal and Helv) all had to be
run as Triumvirate (=Helvetica).

Here it is back at you as a PgS4 file. Can you load that?

--Geoff

--
ggass@teleport.com Geoffrey A. Gass Foulecourt Press

I too await the answer of the question from Lani below. The Atari to Windows
connection is key to minterest in Pagestream for Windws.

Lani wrote:

> ...
>
> It was made on an Atari.
> ...
> How do I load it into PGS Windoz?

Bob Komives
email: RPK@fortnet.org ...or...
komives@alumni.ksg.harvard.edu
phone: (970) 484 5258 FAX: 240 218 8487 (USA)

On 22-May-00, Steve Greenfield wrote:

>I thought this stuff was supposed to use PGS as an extension? Using DOC
>just confuses the eminently confuseable Windows into thinking it is an
>MS Word document.

Not just that. The email transmission actually has an internal header
explicitly identifying it as an msword document!! However, when the
attachment is separately saved, that header is not there.

--Geoff

--
ggass@teleport.com Geoffrey A. Gass Foulecourt Press

Mahalo,

Yes. of the four pages, it loaded the first. Or maybe e I just couldn't
figure out how to change pages!

The upper right hand logo of the Project is good, but the background
call isn't matched by Windoz.

Still, a fine job!

Yes, it almost works. And I imagine the problem lies in the Windoz
version of the program.

What if anything did you do, other than alter the name a little?

Do you get all 4 pages?

--
-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom. And maybe, some day...

On 22-May-00, Steve Greenfield wrote:

>I thought this stuff was supposed to use PGS as an extension? Using DOC
>just confuses the eminently confuseable Windows into thinking it is an
>MS Word document.

Not just that. The email transmission actually has an internal header
explicitly identifying it as an msword document!! However, when the
attachment is separately saved, that header is not there.

--Geoff

--
ggass@teleport.com         Geoffrey A. Gass     Foulecourt Press
 

Deron should have realized the conflict 12 years ago or so when I first got Pagestream!
 

-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom. And bad headers.
 
 

On 23-May-00, Lani wrote:

> Deron should have realized the conflict 12 years ago or so when I
> first got Pagestream!

Perhaps he didn't expect Microsoft's operating system to be so badly
designed as to rely entirely on a 3-character file extension to identify
formats, without any check on the header of the file itself. This is
the cause of frequent problems on Windows.

Regards
--
Don Cox
doncox@enterprise.net

It does seem to be the Windows Style Guide to rely entirely on the 3
letter extension. However, it seems to me it is possible to write
programs so that they actually check the file itself, as does every
program on the Amiga, hence, I can load any supported graphic file into
ImageFX, Photogenics, PhotoAlbum, etc without regard to the filename or
extension.

This caused me some confusion when I first started using Windblows a
lot, a couple of times I had files that I saved from the Amiga and I
couldn't open them in Photoslop 3. I could reopen on the Amiga in any
graphics program, and resave, but still Photoschlock 3 kept saying
something like "Unknown File Type".

Oops, I'd named them with 4 letters, TIFF in one case, JPEG in another.
Photospot didn't even try and open them, it just looked at the extension
and it wasn't on its list.

So, in the end, the point is that I think it was decided to use .PGS for
the Pagestream extension, and probably a good idea to stick with that,
especially for cross platform use.

My .02, plus tax
Steve

Don Cox wrote:
>
> On 23-May-00, Lani wrote:
>
> > Deron should have realized the conflict 12 years ago or so when I
> > first got Pagestream!
>
> Perhaps he didn't expect Microsoft's operating system to be so badly
> designed as to rely entirely on a 3-character file extension to identify
> formats, without any check on the header of the file itself. This is
> the cause of frequent problems on Windows.

On 22-May-00, Lani wrote:

>Yes. of the four pages, it loaded the first. Or maybe I just couldn't
>figure out how to change pages!

If the Windoze version is like the Amiga version, there's a wide
button under the display with "1/x" on it -- where x is the total
number of pages in the document, and the number to the left is the
page being displayed. Pressing this button lets you enter the page
number you want displayed. To the right are two buttons marked < and >
which allow you to step forward or back in the page sequence.

>The upper right hand logo of the Project is good, but the background
>call isn't matched by Windoz.

I assume you meant left-hand logo? The background appears here as a
series of horizontal gray stripes.

As loaded, the text on Page 1 did not flow around the centered box, so
many words were obscured. Using Word Wrap to get the text to run around
the box then caused the text to overflow the last page. This was
probably due to the change of font (to Intellifont Triumvirate in the
Amiga version). Changing /Width/ to 95% allowed all the text to be
included. These changes were not in the version sent to you.

>Yes, it almost works. And I imagine the problem lies in the Windoz
>version of the program.
>What if anything did you do, other than alter the name a little?

Nothing aside from choosing the fonts to substitute for those not
in my machine.

>Do you get all 4 pages?

Yes. The clipboard graphic for the Technical Notes also came through fine.

The original Atari document used Oriental (Brass Fortune Cookie header)
and Colombia (text for Aumakuas feature) fonts, which are old PageStream
format (DMF/FM) fonts, not available to Windows or Mac machines unless
Deron made Type 1 or Type 3 versions of them for you.

PgS4 is a little confused by the page numbering. Page 1, 8.5x11; pages
2-3 side-by-side on a 17x11" sheet and called Page 2; pages 4-5 on
17x11" and called Page 4, with Page 5 blank except for the header at
the top. Page 4 has a "10" at the bottom. For a pull-out insert, Page 4
normally would have been to the left of Page 1 on a 17 x 11" sheet.

Anyway, it's nice to know that Amiga and Windows versions are at least
/slightly/ compatible.

--Geoff

--
ggass@teleport.com Geoffrey A. Gass Foulecourt Press

On 23-May-00, Lani wrote:

> Deron should have realized the conflict 12 years ago or so when I
> first got Pagestream!

Perhaps he didn't expect Microsoft's operating system to be so badly
designed as to rely entirely on a 3-character file extension to identify
formats, without any check on the header of the file itself.  This is
the cause of frequent problems on Windows.

Regards
--
Don Cox
doncox@enterprise.net

---

-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom.
 
 

Coming soon, my second book on the Huna religious movement!
"POTHOLES ON THE PATH: Vol. 1 To Walk in a Sacred Manner"

The Huna Discussion Group, Subscribe: Huna-MFL-subscribe@egroups.com

First Huna book: "THE SEEING: The Confirming Mystical Experiences of Huna" available from http://www.mistymountainbooks.com/orderbk.htm
 

Geoffrey Gass wrote:

On 22-May-00, Lani wrote:

>Yes. of the four pages, it loaded the first. Or maybe I just couldn't
>figure out how to change pages!

If the Windoze version is like the Amiga version, there's a wide
button under the display with "1/x" on it -- where x is the total
number of pages in the document, and the number to the left is the
page being displayed. Pressing this button lets you enter the page
number you want displayed. To the right are two buttons marked < and >
which allow you to step forward or back in the page sequence.

I'll look for it. I'll certainly be glad when Deron can add a Help file to it.

>The upper right hand logo of the Project is good, but the background
>call isn't matched by Windoz.

I assume you meant left-hand logo? The background appears here as a
series of horizontal gray stripes.

As loaded, the text on Page 1 did not flow around the centered box, so
many words were obscured.

Using Word Wrap to get the text to run around
the box then caused the text to overflow the last page.

This was
probably due to the change of font (to Intellifont Triumvirate in the
Amiga version). Changing /Width/ to 95% allowed all the text to be
included. These changes were not in the version sent to you.

>Yes, it almost works. And I imagine the problem lies in the Windoz
>version of the program.
>What if anything did you do, other than alter the name a little?

Nothing aside from choosing the fonts to substitute for those not
in my machine.

>Do you get all 4 pages?

Yes. The clipboard graphic for the Technical Notes also came through fine.

but you also got the background call to the logo correct, and PGS Window does not. I hope that the background fills still exist...

The original Atari document used Oriental (Brass Fortune Cookie header)
and Colombia (text for Aumakuas feature) fonts, which are old PageStream
format (DMF/FM) fonts, not available to Windows or Mac machines unless
Deron made Type 1 or Type 3 versions of them for you.

PgS4 is a little confused by the page numbering. Page 1, 8.5x11; pages
2-3 side-by-side on a 17x11" sheet and called Page 2; pages 4-5 on
17x11" and called Page 4, with Page 5 blank except for the header at
the top. Page 4 has a "10" at the bottom. For a pull-out insert, Page 4
normally would have been to the left of Page 1 on a 17 x 11" sheet.

Anyway, it's nice to know that Amiga and Windows versions are at least
/slightly/ compatible.

--Geoff

--
ggass@teleport.com         Geoffrey A. Gass     Foulecourt Press

-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom.
 
 

Coming soon, my second book on the Huna religious movement!
"POTHOLES ON THE PATH: Vol. 1 To Walk in a Sacred Manner"

The Huna Discussion Group, Subscribe: Huna-MFL-subscribe@egroups.com

First Huna book: "THE SEEING: The Confirming Mystical Experiences of Huna" available from http://www.mistymountainbooks.com/orderbk.htm
 

Hello Lani on 22-May-00 23:16:52 you said

>Aloha,

>OK, I'll admit it.

>I'm a newbie.

>The attachment I have included is NOT a virus!!!

>Hlp_1.doc

>It was a cute little Church Newsletter for our Hunian Language Project.

>It was made on an Atari.

>The fonts don't match, natch.

>But I thought that our PGS Windoz would simply go to defaults.

>No, CRASH! Boom!

>How do I load it into PGS Windoz?

>Anyone who tries it should have everything else saved, so that if PGS
>crashes, nothing will be hurt.

>--
>-Lani
Well the (fairly good) news is that it imports into PGSAmiga4 OK. It
identifies it as being in PageStream2 format and accepts it. Four pages of
double-fold leaflet with Brass Fortune Cookies on the back page.

So I guess that the format is still OK 'in principle'. Are you using the
latest Windoze version which is up on the secure site at the moment?

Although I have downloaded it I haven't been able to install it because bl**dy
Windoze has gone so sick on me that I am about to completely refomat my hard
drive and start again!!!

Pleez, pleez, pleez Amiga give us a small, tight, efficient, elegant OS.

Tony Cooke *_/Team AMIGA/_* Wirenet
A4000 CyberStormIII 60/50 SCSI, PicassoIV, MFCIII,
HP Laserjet 4P, Stylus 600, 21" ADI Microscan 6G+,
For *_Cavies_* or */Guinea Pigs/*
http://www.vivamiga.u-net.com
Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

 
Well the (fairly good) news is that it imports into PGSAmiga4 OK. It
identifies it as being in PageStream2 format and accepts it. Four pages of
double-fold leaflet with Brass Fortune Cookies on the back page. :)

So I guess that the format is still OK 'in principle'. Are you using the
latest Windoze version which is up on the secure site at the moment?

Although I have downloaded it I haven't been able to install it because bl**dy
Windoze has gone so sick on me that I am about to completely refomat my hard
drive and start again!!!

Pleez, pleez, pleez Amiga give us a small, tight, efficient, elegant OS.
 

Tony Cooke     *_/Team  AMIGA/_*    Wirenet
A4000 CyberStormIII 60/50 SCSI,    PicassoIV,    MFCIII,
HP Laserjet 4P,    Stylus 600,     21" ADI Microscan 6G+,
For *_Cavies_* or */Guinea Pigs/*
http://www.vivamiga.u-net.com
Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Yes, I have the latest version. It's odd, it thinks that it is an 8 1/2 x 11 and two 11 x 17, to make a total of five pages. It prints out the 4 pages of it perfectly!

But the main specific problem I have with PGS Windoz at the moment is that the background fills calls fail on the logo and the .cvg Clip Board.

Of course, in general the worst thing right now are the artifacts left on the screen all the times which cover up the work.

And strangely, all the text seems to be "frozen" and while the font can be changed, no words can be added or taken away. If it wasn't for the fact that the fonts CAN be changed, I'd be thinking that it is assuming the text objects are all graphics.

On the Brass Fortune Cookie part, can you chance the words? Not the font, but the words themselves?

-Lani

Adversity brings wisdom.
 
 

Coming soon, my second book on the Huna religious movement!
"POTHOLES ON THE PATH: Vol. 1 To Walk in a Sacred Manner"

The Huna Discussion Group, Subscribe: Huna-MFL-subscribe@egroups.com

First Huna book: "THE SEEING: The Confirming Mystical Experiences of Huna" available from http://www.mistymountainbooks.com/orderbk.htm
 

On 23-May-00 17:28:59 kahunalani@earthlink.net Lani wrote:

>Yes, I have the latest version. It's odd, it thinks that it is an 8 1/2
>x 11 and two 11 x 17, to make a total of five pages. It prints out the
>4 pages of it perfectly!

This looks a lot like you've got "facing pages" ticked in your
preferences.

--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 23-May-0 19:23:55 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmaddock@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Song of Solomon 8:6 Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal
on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as
the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame.

On 23-May-00, Tony Cooke wrote:

> Pleez, pleez, pleez Amiga give us a small, tight, efficient, elegant
> OS.

They did. It works fine for PGS here. (A4000/040). What are you
complaining about?

A graphics card and a 19 inch monitor helps.

Of course the A4000 is too slow for 3D rendering, but it's quite fast
enough for DTP in my experience.

Regards
--
Don Cox
doncox@enterprise.net

Hello Tony

On 23-May-00, Tony Cooke wrote:
> Although I have downloaded it I haven't been able to install it because
> bl**dy Windoze has gone so sick on me that I am about to completely refomat
> my hard drive and start again!!!

Hehe :] My mate is reinstalling Windoze98 every month :] I installed my
Workbench in 1994... (actually in 1996, when accidently formatted hd0

> Pleez, pleez, pleez Amiga give us a small, tight, efficient, elegant OS.

Agree! Just AmigaOS3.5 + DOpusMagellan joined into one + PPC support will do
the thing :0)

Regards
--
<tsb>D.J.Nick | D-Tronic, Sindjeliceva 11/8, 14000 Valjevo, Serbia (YU)
<tsb>Tel: +381 (0) 14 223 655 Email: DJNick@ptt.yu ICQ: 13794052
<tsb>personal:http://members.xoom.com/djnick2k
<tsb>agency:http://www.crosswinds.net/~amigads
<tsb>
<tsb>Amiga1200T PPC 603e 166mhz 060/50, BlizzardVision 8MB,
<tsb>64MB; 5.1 & 1.1GB HDs; Sony 12X CDRom; 33.6K modem;
<tsb>17" DTK mon; MIDI; Prelude1200 soundcard; HP 6L printer

I sure get ticked at my forgetfulness, but I get more ticked
at the bug that has plagued PageLiner in Edit mode while running
PageStream. Obviously, the bug struck again tonight.....

This has been repeated by me a zillion times... and I still forget
when I am in the midst of "creation".

Tonight I was wrapping up my term paper... due Monday... and had
been "on a roll", so to speak.

I had been running PageStream and was using the Sent To Editor
feature which HotLinks PageLiner to PgSt and lets you edit a
whole lot faster than a bog slow A3000 in Native Mode will via
PageStream itself... when I had my standard total, 100% lockup where
NOTHING worked, and the danged cursor was stuck up in the top left
corner highlighting "Project", or whatever it was.

The cause is always the same:

I have MagicMenu hacked into my system. (I love what it does for
the use of the Amiga, and is one of the reasons I like the Amiga
look/ease-of-use.)

I had just scrolled to the bottom of the text file in PageLiner
and had cut out one of the bits of info I had sitting there to be
placed elsewhere in the project. I went up to the top to PASTE
the danged thing into the place I wanted and instantly the whole
sheebang freezes... cursor, scrolling, everything.

This has happened enought times that I should know better, and it
ONLY seems to "work" when I am at the absolute bottom of the text
file in PageLiner, but when one gets wrapped up, one tends to
forget little things like crash creators...

I lost 40 minutes of particularly creative prose and stuff for my
project! Aaaarrrrggghhh!!!

Now, I may be able to get back to the flow of thought I was on,
but not as elegantly as I was, believe me.

So, my questions:

1. Is there a fix for the bug? I seem to recall someone
mentioning this problem ages ago, but forget the result.

2. Is this problem, the incompatibility with MagicMenu, being
addressed in any upgrades to PageLiner? ...or, can it be fixed?

3. Is there a NEW PageLiner with PgSt4.x??? If so, is it BETTER?

4. Is there some way to have a AUTO SAVE feature set up in
PageLiner like there is for PageStream itself? (Maybe NOT
automatically, but a way to have a little message crop up
reminding those in the throws of creativity to save what they
have done so far. I have lost hours of work over the last few
years, and would like to have that reduced if possible...)

5. Will there be an upgrade of any kind to PageStream 3.4 Beta9,
which is what I have at the moment... (when money allows, I WILL
upgrade to 4.0, but until my income goes up as a result of these
university courses, I am stuck at a level that does not allow me
to have that extra money... most of you know THAT feeling, I
will bet...)

TIA

Gil Knutson

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil Knutson's Pride and Joy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gknutson@uniserve.com - OS3.5 - Sardis, BC, Canada
A3000/30/2+16 RAM + 240 meg Quantum + 1.06 gig Seagate + ZIP Drive
MFCardIII+GVC 56k Speakerphone+Lexmark 4039 10R w/16meg
THOR2.6, MUI3.8, MWB, Voyager3, AmIRC 2.0, AmFTP 1.65 (all reg)
~~~~~~~~~~~ The Amiga Shall Inherit the Earth ~~~~~~~~~~~~

COMMENT #6 TO REPEL UNWANTED CONVERSATIONALISTS:
I just had a proctological exam - wow, worth every penny!

Hello Gil,

On 25-May-00, Gil Knutson wrote:

> I have MagicMenu hacked into my system. (I love what it does for
> the use of the Amiga, and is one of the reasons I like the Amiga
> look/ease-of-use.)

Well, you've pretty much answered your own question. Magic Menu is a hack,
and as such may cause behavior that is undesirable.

I'm not sure if MM is the cause of your crash, but I've had similar bad
results with MM with other programs. I removed it because of that, and I
have a pretty stable system now, even though I'm running several other
"hacks".

I liked Magic Menu the short time I ran it, but I couldn't stand the crashes
and freezes. If I were you, I'd get rid of it and see if that fixes your
problem, and get used to the Amiga's standard menus. They're not that bad.

Regards,
Billy
--
Billy Horton
Video Image Productionshttp://www.vipvideo.com
Hattiesburg, MS
The birthplace of Rock-N-Roll (look it up!)
-----------------------------------------------

Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time
to reform.
-- Mark Twain

On 25-May-00,* Billy Horton*, of Planet Eros, wrote these Wise Words:

> I liked Magic Menu the short time I ran it, but I couldn't stand the
> crashes and freezes. If I were you, I'd get rid of it and see if
> that fixes your problem, and get used to the Amiga's standard menus.
> They're not that bad.

No, they are worse. : )))

They are the same as MAC or Windows, and that is boring.
I like being easily able to put all the programs I want
into the menu... I find my ToolManager does not work with
my icons, so I don't use it any longer.. : (

Having MM sped up my use of PageStream and PageLiner and
whatnot...

: )

Gil

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil Knutson's Pride and Joy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gknutson@uniserve.com - OS3.5 - Sardis, BC, Canada
A3000/30/2+16 RAM + 240 meg Quantum + 1.06 gig Seagate + ZIP Drive
MFCardIII+GVC 56k Speakerphone+Lexmark 4039 10R w/16meg
THOR2.6, MUI3.8, MWB, Voyager3, AmIRC 2.0, AmFTP 1.65 (all reg)
~~~~~~~~~~~ The Amiga Shall Inherit the Earth ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is
time to reform.
-- Mark Twain

Dear Gil,

There are updates to MagicMenu on one of the latest AmigaActive CDs, and I think I saw an older fix for MM on Aminet.

Michael
--

Michael Habermann: mrh@charm.net

On 27-May-00,* Michael Habermann*, of Planet Eros, wrote these Wise Words:

> There are updates to MagicMenu on one of the latest AmigaActive CDs,

Really? I wonder what is meant by "updates"? Updates from 1993
would not be to upgradish... : )))

Thanks for letting me know.

> and I think I saw an older fix for MM on Aminet.

I will check this.

Have actually not been using MM today. No crashes in the same
way... did get one lockup, but that is a significant decrease
from normal... ))

Gil

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil Knutson's Pride and Joy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gknutson@uniserve.com - OS3.5 - Sardis, BC, Canada
A3000/30/2+16 RAM + 240 meg Quantum + 1.06 gig Seagate + ZIP Drive
MFCardIII+GVC 56k Speakerphone+Lexmark 4039 10R w/16meg
THOR2.6, MUI3.8, MWB, Voyager3, AmIRC 2.0, AmFTP 1.65 (all reg)
~~~~~~~~~~~ The Amiga Shall Inherit the Earth ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why is there an expiration date on sour cream?

Stuff below is possibly useless... : )

.