Hello PageStream Users,

Since I switched from my AmigaOne to an iMac, I do not use PageStream much although I do have version 5.0.5.8 Pro which runs on the iMac. Consequently, I have become, primarily, a lurker on the two PageStream mailing lists.

The subject title ENOUGH is the short version of "I've had it with PageStream."

Recently, I wanted to create a simple photo document. I designed each page so that nine photos would fit on the page together with a name plate (text frame) beneath each photo. The photos were of persons, saved in JPEG format, and each running just under 1 megabyte in size. After setting up the first page, I decided to print it. I have two printers connected to the iMac, an HP laserjet and a Epson inkjet. In this trial, I'm using the Epson for printing and I've asked PageStream to use the MacIntosh print system in order to set some of the many bells and whistles that the Epson has. Here follows the scenario that broke my patience:

(1) On sending a print job to the Epson, an extra print job is sent to the HP laserjet, which fortunately is offline. Consequently, at some future point, one must open the print queue for the laserjet and delete the extraneous print job(s), since, otherwise the job(s) will remain in the print queue and three days later when you decide to print something with the laserjet, out comes an unwanted printout. This behaviour has been observed previously and commented on.

(2) The name of the job sent to the Epson queue is just 'untitled' not the filename which is to be printed. The job sent to the laserjet uses the filename of the source file.

(3) On sending the single page to the Epson I received:

First Try:
Of the nine photos appearing in the PageStream view, one was blank on printout.

Second Try:
When PageStream does not respond as expected, as in First Try, I quite PageStream and then re-open it. Often this annoying device gets PageStream back on track. For the case at hand, when the printed page appeared, SEVEN of nine photos were blank. Of the photos that did print, one of them had a vertical white stripe (top to bottom) about 1/8" wide.

Third Try:
Forget what interventions I made before trying a third printout, other than the Quit/Open routine. Result? Same as First Try.

(4) The results noted above are not consistent! I've had sessions with PageStream on the iMac where everything was fine, excepting for additional print jobs being sent to the 'other' printer; i.e., the one which is idle or offline. At Christmas time 2011, I created a spectacular Xmas cards for some friends -- at least those were the comments I received -- and PageStream created and printed without mishap.

(5) Printing to PDF is no saviour. As has been experienced many times before, the .pdf file disappears, at least does NOT appear in the directory into which it was supposed to be sent. On occasion, a print job is sent to one of the printers without any announcement of such activity.

(6) While creating the first page, it was necessary to import photos. I was lucky if two could be imported successfully in a row. On the third import -- possibly even the second on some occasions -- a popup appeared WARNING that the file format was not recognized! JPEG not recognized!!! Solution? As already noted, QUIT PageStream -- not just set PageStream to sleep on the dock -- then OPEN PageStream and import the photo that few minutes ago was of the category "file format not recognized". So, in order to import nine photos, it was necessary to run through 5 to 6 operations of
(a) Open PageStream,
(b) Import as many photos as possible, usually two, sometimes only one.
(c) Quit PageStream, then return to step (a).

Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. Occasionally, Preview does some mysterious thing, but that is the exception. Also, it is not necessary to Quit and then Open Mac programs because they've run amuck. So far, PageStream is the only program that does that.

CONCLUSION:
A supposed desktop publishing program that cannot print its pages in a reliable manner is of little use, to me. I've spent too many hours trying to figure out what in hell I'm doing that is wrong and I've had enough of that. I've turned to using other DTP programs. The current one that I'm trying out is called Swift Publisher. Compared with PageStream it is a puny piece of software, BUT ..... BUT ..... it is reliable. It does what I tell it to do CONSISTENTLY and, so far, I've not lost hours of work trying to figure out "what went wrong" because nothing has gone wrong. Once I reproduced the "nine photos per page" document, it printed to either printer without mishap. There is another one called iStudio Publisher which seems to have some promise. If PageStream were to operate consistently, neither of these programs would be considered for a moment.

At any rate, I'm a bit sad about bidding adieu to an old friend like PageStream, but, have to move on.

All my best wishes to Deron and the remaining PageStream users, you have helped on so many occasions, and without that help I would be poorer person. Thank you for your kindness and consideration, and good luck in your various endeavours.

It is time to return to lurking! )

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. <<<

Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:42:29 -0500, Don Green Dragon <fergdc@shaw.ca> wrote:

>
> Hello PageStream Users,
>
> Since I switched from my AmigaOne to an iMac, I do not use PageStream much although I do have version 5.0.5.8 Pro which runs on the iMac. >Consequently, I have become, primarily, a lurker on the two PageStream mailing lists.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there,
I have had of those troubles with banded photos my Pagestream 5.0.5.8 Pro. Photos from iPhoto would import just fine when the same thing from Mac Preview would be banded. I still find Pagestream terrific for producing really flexible reports and illustrations, posters and letters with lots of photos. (once you figure out the source of the photo-format problem)

I would like a transparency feature, however, to keep pace with the powers of the Macintosh graphics standard. There is something weird from time to time with the printer complex, it will print to the side or just print a little bit of something. Last time it was a transparency on clear plastic that would only print two inchs or so - wasted a few expensive sheets before I just put the most essential overlays onto the 2 inch portion that would print-out. Looked like a buffer was getting overwhelmed.

So I often convert the document to a PDF and print that, usually works fine although some gradient fills are lost.

Wish I had more time to study just what is happening - perhaps it is some setting I have wrong.

But All in All, when I need to do something out of the ordinary and need great flexibility and power without complications, it's still Pagestream.

Barry

On 02142012--, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:

> >>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. <<<
>
> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?
>
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:42:29 -0500, Don Green Dragon <fergdc@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello PageStream Users,
> >
> > Since I switched from my AmigaOne to an iMac, I do not use PageStream much although I do have version 5.0.5.8 Pro which runs on the iMac. >Consequently, I have become, primarily, a lurker on the two PageStream mailing lists.
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 14, 2012, at 12:52 PM, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. <<<
>
>
> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?
>

I could describe it by analogy with a "regular" Windows program, which you will understand if you're familiar with Windows.

A "regular" Windows program, among other things, uses the fonts made available by the operating system. Generally these are the fonts that exist in the "fonts" subdirectory of the windows directory, plus any fonts made available by font managers such as Adobe Type Manager. These fonts are available to all programs that use fonts.

A "regular" Windows program also uses a standard print dialog. Any program that uses a print dialog that looks different from what other programs use is not a "regular" Windows program. Microsoft Word, for some reason, uses a different print dialog, and therefore is not a "regular" Windows program.

A "regular" Mac program does something similar. Mac OS X provides applications with the fonts placed in certain specific folders. Some font managers change that, and specify the available fonts in different ways, but in any case all applications should have the same set of available fonts. Pagestream does not use the fonts made available by the operating system. It has a preferences dialog in which the user specifies which folders Pagestream should find its fonts in.

Mac OS X also provides a standard print dialog that does pretty much what the standard Windows print dialog does, except that it also provides means to create and save a PDF or to preview the printed output as a PDF. Pagestream has its own print dialog that does not look at all like the standard Mac print dialog. It has an option to use the system print dialog, which looks pretty much like the "regular" print dialog used in most other programs in Mac OS X, but many of the features in that dialog (particularly saving and previewing as a PDF) just plain don't work.

I do not print from Pagestream to a printer. I use Menu, File, Save as PDF. I then open the saved PDF in Preview (a "regular" Mac program that comes with the OS), and from there I use the standard print dialog.

But Pagestream has so many other bugs to work around that I'm seriously considering doing my DTP in an emulator. There are some fairly competent, not too expensive programs (which I have already bought and paid for) that run in Windows, and I can run Windows in VirtualBox.

--
Martin B. Brilliant - mbrilliant@alum.mit.edu
Mac OS X version 10.6.8
PageStream (non-pro) 5.0.5.8

Hi,

Admittedly I don't print from PgS as often as I once did, but as it so happens I have recently printed some graphics to my color printer without a single issue. My memory is muddled on the specifics because I normally produce PDFs, not having a need for hard copy in general, but I remember it because I *meant* to produce a PDF and printed from PgS instead (don't ask how I managed that feat).

To unmuddle things a bit I created a new document, placed one of the graphics (3840x2160 24-bit PNG) and printed it directly from PgS. It printed just fine.

The document in question is 24 pages with lots of graphics (~300 dpi PNG images covering most of most pages). Import hasn't been an issue for images or text that I can recall. Not being able to copy or paste is a pain to be sure (a problem which IIRC started when I updated to Lion), but import works just fine.

As noted, my normal output is to PDF. I use PgS to make PDFs ranging from a few pages of very simple text to documents such as the above referenced one which makes use of images, text, textfx, vector graphics (I've got some complaints about the reliability of the union path operator, but the resulting objects when successful work just fine), fills, variable transparency, etc.

PgS can't overwrite a locked PDF file, such as one that is open in Preview, which would cause silent failures in an older version of PgS, but the current version at least gives an error that it couldn't write the file (PgS doesn't know that Preview has it locked and technically it could be something else causing the failure). I don't remember when Deron added the error message, but it was -- surprise surprise -- due to a bug report. Unreported problems tend to go unresolved until/unless he discovers them on his own.

I just saved it the large document as a PDF to be sure and everything looks correct, even the % alpha transparency. The only thing "wrong" is Apple Preview is displaying some outlined text incorrectly (the fill color bleeds past the outline which is hardly PgS' fault, it prints correctly from Preview). There are some things that the PDF export does not support (gradient shape fills, for example). My recommendation to Deron on this has been to rasterize at settings provided in the export dialog for things like this that PDF doesn't support. Perhaps if others expressed an interest in such a feature it would happen.

In my experience, PgS's PDF export is very solid. I've only started playing with the dpi settings in PDF export, but if memory serves it works very nicely. The one I just did weighs in at 51MB compared to the 169MB for the PgS file (unusual for me, but I made the images internal to avoid surprises).

When I first started color printing at home what I found strange was that printing from Apple Preview (with or without color correction) was consistently worse than printing from the Gimp on linux. When it comes to printing color YMMV -- and expect it to vary -- based on who knows what parameters. I'd be surprised if the Gimp provided better print quality than Preview for another person -- but that was very much the case for me when I was comparing.

If someone has had enough with PgS -- fine, that is their perogative. But I didn't want the list to be left with an impression that PgS doesn't work on OS X, that it can't create PDFs or produce quality color prints.

And, for the record, based on a definition of "mac native" program I've seen on here Photoshop wouldn't qualify either. For example, Photoshop provides its own file requestor, though it allows you to use the OSX one as well (which sounds rather like the PgS print situation). And, the way it is written, prevents using new features found in the OS X file requestor. I don't print from Photoshop, but I'd be surprised if it didn't provide its own print requestor as well.

PgS is a crossplatform DTP application that works quite well for producing documents for PDF or print. It is written by one person (Deron), not by a team of programmers, which has consequences for its development. I happen to like how it works quite well, despite its shortcomings. Its been a while since I've used anything else, but its worth noting I have Adobe's suite and use PgS for page layout. If someone else makes a different decision, that is fine. But PgS is certainly usable in its role of page layout, printing (including color) and producing PDFs.

Tim Doty

On Feb 14, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Barry Moore wrote:

> Hi there,
> I have had of those troubles with banded photos my Pagestream 5.0.5.8 Pro. Photos from iPhoto would import just fine when the same thing from Mac Preview would be banded. I still find Pagestream terrific for producing really flexible reports and illustrations, posters and letters with lots of photos. (once you figure out the source of the photo-format problem)
>
> I would like a transparency feature, however, to keep pace with the powers of the Macintosh graphics standard. There is something weird from time to time with the printer complex, it will print to the side or just print a little bit of something. Last time it was a transparency on clear plastic that would only print two inchs or so - wasted a few expensive sheets before I just put the most essential overlays onto the 2 inch portion that would print-out. Looked like a buffer was getting overwhelmed.
>
> So I often convert the document to a PDF and print that, usually works fine although some gradient fills are lost.
>
> Wish I had more time to study just what is happening - perhaps it is some setting I have wrong.
>
> But All in All, when I need to do something out of the ordinary and need great flexibility and power without complications, it's still Pagestream.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On 02142012--, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. <<<
>>
>> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:42:29 -0500, Don Green Dragon <fergdc@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hello PageStream Users,
>>>
>>> Since I switched from my AmigaOne to an iMac, I do not use PageStream much although I do have version 5.0.5.8 Pro which runs on the iMac. >Consequently, I have become, primarily, a lurker on the two PageStream mailing lists.
>>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I do routinely print from PageStream. I find it excellent, using the
Windows printer driver. I'm using Windows XT Pro and I believe this
question arose concerning a Linux OS but I'm not sure. It appears Tim is
using a Mac. It would be helpful if everyone was specific about their
platform, particularly concerning issues such as printing, .pdf
conversion, etc., which would need platform-specific answers. Deron
doesn't write the drivers but he writes to the drivers.

On 2/15/2012 7:59 AM, Tim Doty wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Admittedly I don't print from PgS as often as I once did, but as it so
> happens I have recently printed some graphics to my color printer
> without a single issue. My memory is muddled on the specifics because I
> normally produce PDFs, not having a need for hard copy in general, but I
> remember it because I *meant* to produce a PDF and printed from PgS
> instead (don't ask how I managed that feat).
>
> To unmuddle things a bit I created a new document, placed one of the
> graphics (3840x2160 24-bit PNG) and printed it directly from PgS. It
> printed just fine.
>
> The document in question is 24 pages with lots of graphics (~300 dpi PNG
> images covering most of most pages). Import hasn't been an issue for
> images or text that I can recall. Not being able to copy or paste is a
> pain to be sure (a problem which IIRC started when I updated to Lion),
> but import works just fine.
>
> As noted, my normal output is to PDF. I use PgS to make PDFs ranging
> from a few pages of very simple text to documents such as the above
> referenced one which makes use of images, text, textfx, vector graphics
> (I've got some complaints about the reliability of the union path
> operator, but the resulting objects when successful work just fine),
> fills, variable transparency, etc.
>
> PgS can't overwrite a locked PDF file, such as one that is open in
> Preview, which would cause silent failures in an older version of PgS,
> but the current version at least gives an error that it couldn't write
> the file (PgS doesn't know that Preview has it locked and technically it
> could be something else causing the failure). I don't remember when
> Deron added the error message, but it was -- surprise surprise -- due to
> a bug report. Unreported problems tend to go unresolved until/unless he
> discovers them on his own.
>
> I just saved it the large document as a PDF to be sure and everything
> looks correct, even the % alpha transparency. The only thing "wrong" is
> Apple Preview is displaying some outlined text incorrectly (the fill
> color bleeds past the outline which is hardly PgS' fault, it prints
> correctly from Preview). There are some things that the PDF export does
> not support (gradient shape fills, for example). My recommendation to
> Deron on this has been to rasterize at settings provided in the export
> dialog for things like this that PDF doesn't support. Perhaps if others
> expressed an interest in such a feature it would happen.
>
> In my experience, PgS's PDF export is very solid. I've only started
> playing with the dpi settings in PDF export, but if memory serves it
> works very nicely. The one I just did weighs in at 51MB compared to the
> 169MB for the PgS file (unusual for me, but I made the images internal
> to avoid surprises).
>
> When I first started color printing at home what I found strange was
> that printing from Apple Preview (with or without color correction) was
> consistently worse than printing from the Gimp on linux. When it comes
> to printing color YMMV -- and expect it to vary -- based on who knows
> what parameters. I'd be surprised if the Gimp provided better print
> quality than Preview for another person -- but that was very much the
> case for me when I was comparing.
>
> If someone has had enough with PgS -- fine, that is their perogative.
> But I didn't want the list to be left with an impression that PgS
> doesn't work on OS X, that it can't create PDFs or produce quality color
> prints.
>
> And, for the record, based on a definition of "mac native" program I've
> seen on here Photoshop wouldn't qualify either. For example, Photoshop
> provides its own file requestor, though it allows you to use the OSX one
> as well (which sounds rather like the PgS print situation). And, the way
> it is written, prevents using new features found in the OS X file
> requestor. I don't print from Photoshop, but I'd be surprised if it
> didn't provide its own print requestor as well.
>
> PgS is a crossplatform DTP application that works quite well for
> producing documents for PDF or print. It is written by one person
> (Deron), not by a team of programmers, which has consequences for its
> development. I happen to like how it works quite well, despite its
> shortcomings. Its been a while since I've used anything else, but its
> worth noting I have Adobe's suite and use PgS for page layout. If
> someone else makes a different decision, that is fine. But PgS is
> certainly usable in its role of page layout, printing (including color)
> and producing PDFs.
>
> Tim Doty
>
> On Feb 14, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Barry Moore wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> > I have had of those troubles with banded photos my Pagestream 5.0.5.8
> Pro. Photos from iPhoto would import just fine when the same thing from
> Mac Preview would be banded. I still find Pagestream terrific for
> producing really flexible reports and illustrations, posters and letters
> with lots of photos. (once you figure out the source of the photo-format
> problem)
> >
> > I would like a transparency feature, however, to keep pace with the
> powers of the Macintosh graphics standard. There is something weird from
> time to time with the printer complex, it will print to the side or just
> print a little bit of something. Last time it was a transparency on
> clear plastic that would only print two inchs or so - wasted a few
> expensive sheets before I just put the most essential overlays onto the
> 2 inch portion that would print-out. Looked like a buffer was getting
> overwhelmed.
> >
> > So I often convert the document to a PDF and print that, usually
> works fine although some gradient fills are lost.
> >
> > Wish I had more time to study just what is happening - perhaps it is
> some setting I have wrong.
> >
> > But All in All, when I need to do something out of the ordinary and
> need great flexibility and power without complications, it's still
> Pagestream.
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
> > On 02142012--, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com
> <mailto:admfubar%40gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print,
> I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document
> properly. <<<
> >>
> >> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users...
> what is a 'regular' mac program?
> >>
> >> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:42:29 -0500, Don Green Dragon <fergdc@shaw.ca
> <mailto:fergdc%40shaw.ca>> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hello PageStream Users,
> >>>
> >>> Since I switched from my AmigaOne to an iMac, I do not use
> PageStream much although I do have version 5.0.5.8 Pro which runs on the
> iMac. >Consequently, I have become, primarily, a lurker on the two
> PageStream mailing lists.
> >>>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>

--
DAVID L. STEVENS -- TEAM AMIGA --
Windows XP user (:^(> on Acer Aspire 9810 2.16 GHz Notebook
2 GB RAM; 3 150-GB Hard Drives; CanoScan LIDE 20
Canon i860 & Brother HL-5050 PageStream v5.0.5.7 Pro
<http://home.comcast.net/~dave_stevens/home.html>
I do not necessarily agree with my taglines

***
Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is
not original and the part that is original is not good.

Hi David,

On Feb 15, 2012, at 11:57 AM, David L. Stevens wrote:

> I do routinely print from PageStream. I find it excellent, using the
> Windows printer driver. I'm using Windows XT Pro and I believe this
> question arose concerning a Linux OS but I'm not sure. It appears Tim is
> using a Mac.

I actually use PgS on Windows, linux and OS X. This particular thread had to do with PgS inability to print on OS X, and other observed failings. PgS is not bug free, but I find it to be usable and in fact quite good for doing page layout and PDF production. I rarely print from it these days, but it isn't due to a failing on PgS part as much as it is a reflection of my needs changing.

> It would be helpful if everyone was specific about their
> platform, particularly concerning issues such as printing, .pdf
> conversion, etc., which would need platform-specific answers. Deron
> doesn't write the drivers but he writes to the drivers.

True, and Theo (and others) advocate putting such information in the footer of the email. In my case I am explicit about platform because I use PgS on three of them -- putting those platforms in the email footer wouldn't achieve much.

With Windows it mostly boils down to Win9x, Win2k/WinXP and Vista/Win7 -- those three groupings represent the functional differences in the vast majority of cases. Vista/Win7 break system font support (no, it doesn't affect other applications, but then again PgS is accessing the fonts in a way that most applications don't).

For OS X… Snow Leopard (10.6) broke some things in 3rd party applications (particularly text functionality) and Lion (10.7) broke things again. As a user I like Apple/OSX, but as a developer they aren't very friendly.

Linux… is all over the place with the different distros and some of them breaking things every six months (Ubuntu being the leader of that pack).

In short, not all bugs are introduced by Deron and to correct the matter he does need to know the platform.

Tim Doty

>
> On 2/15/2012 7:59 AM, Tim Doty wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Admittedly I don't print from PgS as often as I once did, but as it so
>> happens I have recently printed some graphics to my color printer
>> without a single issue. My memory is muddled on the specifics because I
>> normally produce PDFs, not having a need for hard copy in general, but I
>> remember it because I *meant* to produce a PDF and printed from PgS
>> instead (don't ask how I managed that feat).
>>
>> To unmuddle things a bit I created a new document, placed one of the
>> graphics (3840x2160 24-bit PNG) and printed it directly from PgS. It
>> printed just fine.
>>
>> The document in question is 24 pages with lots of graphics (~300 dpi PNG
>> images covering most of most pages). Import hasn't been an issue for
>> images or text that I can recall. Not being able to copy or paste is a
>> pain to be sure (a problem which IIRC started when I updated to Lion),
>> but import works just fine.
>>
>> As noted, my normal output is to PDF. I use PgS to make PDFs ranging
>> from a few pages of very simple text to documents such as the above
>> referenced one which makes use of images, text, textfx, vector graphics
>> (I've got some complaints about the reliability of the union path
>> operator, but the resulting objects when successful work just fine),
>> fills, variable transparency, etc.
>>
>> PgS can't overwrite a locked PDF file, such as one that is open in
>> Preview, which would cause silent failures in an older version of PgS,
>> but the current version at least gives an error that it couldn't write
>> the file (PgS doesn't know that Preview has it locked and technically it
>> could be something else causing the failure). I don't remember when
>> Deron added the error message, but it was -- surprise surprise -- due to
>> a bug report. Unreported problems tend to go unresolved until/unless he
>> discovers them on his own.
>>
>> I just saved it the large document as a PDF to be sure and everything
>> looks correct, even the % alpha transparency. The only thing "wrong" is
>> Apple Preview is displaying some outlined text incorrectly (the fill
>> color bleeds past the outline which is hardly PgS' fault, it prints
>> correctly from Preview). There are some things that the PDF export does
>> not support (gradient shape fills, for example). My recommendation to
>> Deron on this has been to rasterize at settings provided in the export
>> dialog for things like this that PDF doesn't support. Perhaps if others
>> expressed an interest in such a feature it would happen.
>>
>> In my experience, PgS's PDF export is very solid. I've only started
>> playing with the dpi settings in PDF export, but if memory serves it
>> works very nicely. The one I just did weighs in at 51MB compared to the
>> 169MB for the PgS file (unusual for me, but I made the images internal
>> to avoid surprises).
>>
>> When I first started color printing at home what I found strange was
>> that printing from Apple Preview (with or without color correction) was
>> consistently worse than printing from the Gimp on linux. When it comes
>> to printing color YMMV -- and expect it to vary -- based on who knows
>> what parameters. I'd be surprised if the Gimp provided better print
>> quality than Preview for another person -- but that was very much the
>> case for me when I was comparing.
>>
>> If someone has had enough with PgS -- fine, that is their perogative.
>> But I didn't want the list to be left with an impression that PgS
>> doesn't work on OS X, that it can't create PDFs or produce quality color
>> prints.
>>
>> And, for the record, based on a definition of "mac native" program I've
>> seen on here Photoshop wouldn't qualify either. For example, Photoshop
>> provides its own file requestor, though it allows you to use the OSX one
>> as well (which sounds rather like the PgS print situation). And, the way
>> it is written, prevents using new features found in the OS X file
>> requestor. I don't print from Photoshop, but I'd be surprised if it
>> didn't provide its own print requestor as well.
>>
>> PgS is a crossplatform DTP application that works quite well for
>> producing documents for PDF or print. It is written by one person
>> (Deron), not by a team of programmers, which has consequences for its
>> development. I happen to like how it works quite well, despite its
>> shortcomings. Its been a while since I've used anything else, but its
>> worth noting I have Adobe's suite and use PgS for page layout. If
>> someone else makes a different decision, that is fine. But PgS is
>> certainly usable in its role of page layout, printing (including color)
>> and producing PDFs.
>>
>> Tim Doty
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Barry Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>> I have had of those troubles with banded photos my Pagestream 5.0.5.8
>> Pro. Photos from iPhoto would import just fine when the same thing from
>> Mac Preview would be banded. I still find Pagestream terrific for
>> producing really flexible reports and illustrations, posters and letters
>> with lots of photos. (once you figure out the source of the photo-format
>> problem)
>>>
>>> I would like a transparency feature, however, to keep pace with the
>> powers of the Macintosh graphics standard. There is something weird from
>> time to time with the printer complex, it will print to the side or just
>> print a little bit of something. Last time it was a transparency on
>> clear plastic that would only print two inchs or so - wasted a few
>> expensive sheets before I just put the most essential overlays onto the
>> 2 inch portion that would print-out. Looked like a buffer was getting
>> overwhelmed.
>>>
>>> So I often convert the document to a PDF and print that, usually
>> works fine although some gradient fills are lost.
>>>
>>> Wish I had more time to study just what is happening - perhaps it is
>> some setting I have wrong.
>>>
>>> But All in All, when I need to do something out of the ordinary and
>> need great flexibility and power without complications, it's still
>> Pagestream.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02142012--, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com
>> <mailto:admfubar%40gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print,
>> I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document
>> properly. <<<
>>>>
>>>> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users...
>> what is a 'regular' mac program?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:42:29 -0500, Don Green Dragon <fergdc@shaw.ca
>> <mailto:fergdc%40shaw.ca>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello PageStream Users,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I switched from my AmigaOne to an iMac, I do not use
>> PageStream much although I do have version 5.0.5.8 Pro which runs on the
>> iMac. >Consequently, I have become, primarily, a lurker on the two
>> PageStream mailing lists.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> DAVID L. STEVENS -- TEAM AMIGA --
> Windows XP user (:^(> on Acer Aspire 9810 2.16 GHz Notebook
> 2 GB RAM; 3 150-GB Hard Drives; CanoScan LIDE 20
> Canon i860 & Brother HL-5050 PageStream v5.0.5.7 Pro
> <http://home.comcast.net/~dave_stevens/home.html>
> I do not necessarily agree with my taglines
>
> ***
> Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is
> not original and the part that is original is not good.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi Admfubar,

On 14Feb2012, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. <<<
>
>
> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?

Hmmmm! Good question! By 'regular' I think I meant "other than PageStream". The 'regular' programs that I use on my iMac are primarily:

-- Mail.app - for downloading and uploading Email messages. Comes as part of OS X.

-- Safari.app - this is a web browser which also comes with OS X. It is not the greatest -- so I've read -- but it is far better than anything I used on the Amiga.

-- Firefox.app - another web browser which does not come with OS X but is free and seems to work nicely. The people who created and maintain Firefox have a neat philosophy. Only used it over the last two weeks.

-- Preview.app - the 'standard' PDF viewer that comes with OS X. Behind the scenes lurks GhostScript. With it you can modify a PDF file a bit, but the tools available are rather clumsy.

-- TextEdit.app - A simple text processor that allows for the creation of plain Ascii files or RTF (Rich Text Format) files. Its PRINT mechanism allows for saving as a PDF file. I never thought I'd find RTf useful, but that is the case now. I have several .rtf files that I use in connection with TeXShop.app.

-- TeXShop.app - this program is the basic reason for purchasing the iMac. It is the graphic front-end for the mathematical typesetting program known as TeX. For the math/physics stuff that I work in, TeX is magic. In my experience, it is the best piece of software I've ever used. It is free and maintained by a group of guys -- mainly men, very few women involved -- who are knowledgable and very helpful, just like the people who help with PageStream. This is the program that has replaced PageStream when dealing with math/physics stuff. To say that TeXShop.app is a "graphic" front-end is a misnomer, but I'll let it pass.

-- Inkscape.app - this is a high end vector drawing program which is free but does not come with OS X. It is complex and difficult to use (for me), but is quite useful because the drawings produced by PageStream are often rejected by my primary program TeXShop.app. So on occasion, I've had to take a vector drawing created by PageStream -- have many of them -- and then save them in PDF format which TeXShop.app will accept. Sometimes TeXShop.app will accept an EPS file created by PageStream, but not always.

-- Swift Publisher 2 - this is my replacement for PageStream when working with photo albums. I've been using an unregistered version for over a week, and so far it is adequate for the meager needs of my photo album work. It does not have the more sophisticated facilities that PageStream offers, but it WORKS! It does not crash -- so far :--) -- and I can import 20 photos without any fuss. In my current project I have a small album with about 56 photos and a bit of text weighing in at 42.5 MB and NO BLOODY PROBLEMS!!! ..... so far .....

There are lots of other applications that come with OS X, but the above are the ones that I use, in the main, and those would be the ones I alluded to as 'regular'.

Brad made a comment to the effect that he was ever so glad that he did not purchase an iMac. My response to that is:

With the iMac I spent my time learning how to use various applications, such as TeXShop.app and TeX, and spend almost zero time fiddling around with installing libraries, installing updates, modifying, trying to figure out why somethings does not work. When I ask one of the 'regular' programs above to print, they print; they send the print job to the printer I've specified; they create a PDF, if that has been specified; and I don't have to piss around trying to figure out "what happened?".

I neither love nor hate Mac OS X. All I know is that it works for me and with Unix sitting at the kernel level I know it is not crap. What they call "the Finder" is truly annoying, but after a while one learns how to avoid the protective clutches that the Finder wraps around the operating system. If I ever get "carried away", with Terminal.app I can even interact with the 'bash' shell which communicates with Darwin, the version of Unix that OS X uses.

I still prefer the Amiga operating system, but OS X is good enough for me.

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

Hi Barry,

> <<snip>>
>
> So I often convert the document to a PDF and print that, usually works fine although some gradient fills are lost.
>
> Wish I had more time to study just what is happening - perhaps it is some setting I have wrong.
>
> But All in All, when I need to do something out of the ordinary and need great flexibility and power without complications, it's still Pagestream.

Happy to hear that PageStream on the Mac is working that well for you. Wish it were the same here!

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

I don't know anything about TeXShop, but Inkscape is not a regular Mac program. It's a Unix/Linux program. It runs in X11 and has Unix/Linux like menus and dialogs. The menus are more like Windows in that the application menu is at the top of the window, not the top of the screen as in regular Mac programs. X11 itself is a regular Mac program, but the programs that run in it are not.

On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Don Green Dragon wrote:

> Hi Admfubar,
>
> On 14Feb2012, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its document properly. <<<
>>
>>
>> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?
>
>
> Hmmmm! Good question! By 'regular' I think I meant "other than PageStream". The 'regular' programs that I use on my iMac are primarily:
>
> -- Mail.app - for downloading and uploading Email messages. Comes as part of OS X.
>
> -- Safari.app - this is a web browser which also comes with OS X. It is not the greatest -- so I've read -- but it is far better than anything I used on the Amiga.
>
> -- Firefox.app - another web browser which does not come with OS X but is free and seems to work nicely. The people who created and maintain Firefox have a neat philosophy. Only used it over the last two weeks.
>
> -- Preview.app - the 'standard' PDF viewer that comes with OS X. Behind the scenes lurks GhostScript. With it you can modify a PDF file a bit, but the tools available are rather clumsy.
>
> -- TextEdit.app - A simple text processor that allows for the creation of plain Ascii files or RTF (Rich Text Format) files. Its PRINT mechanism allows for saving as a PDF file. I never thought I'd find RTf useful, but that is the case now. I have several .rtf files that I use in connection with TeXShop.app.
>
> -- TeXShop.app - this program is the basic reason for purchasing the iMac. It is the graphic front-end for the mathematical typesetting program known as TeX. For the math/physics stuff that I work in, TeX is magic. In my experience, it is the best piece of software I've ever used. It is free and maintained by a group of guys -- mainly men, very few women involved -- who are knowledgable and very helpful, just like the people who help with PageStream. This is the program that has replaced PageStream when dealing with math/physics stuff. To say that TeXShop.app is a "graphic" front-end is a misnomer, but I'll let it pass.
>
> -- Inkscape.app - this is a high end vector drawing program which is free but does not come with OS X. It is complex and difficult to use (for me), but is quite useful because the drawings produced by PageStream are often rejected by my primary program TeXShop.app. So on occasion, I've had to take a vector drawing created by PageStream -- have many of them -- and then save them in PDF format which TeXShop.app will accept. Sometimes TeXShop.app will accept an EPS file created by PageStream, but not always.
>
> -- Swift Publisher 2 - this is my replacement for PageStream when working with photo albums. I've been using an unregistered version for over a week, and so far it is adequate for the meager needs of my photo album work. It does not have the more sophisticated facilities that PageStream offers, but it WORKS! It does not crash -- so far :--) -- and I can import 20 photos without any fuss. In my current project I have a small album with about 56 photos and a bit of text weighing in at 42.5 MB and NO BLOODY PROBLEMS!!! ..... so far .....
>
> There are lots of other applications that come with OS X, but the above are the ones that I use, in the main, and those would be the ones I alluded to as 'regular'.
>
> Brad made a comment to the effect that he was ever so glad that he did not purchase an iMac. My response to that is:
>
> With the iMac I spent my time learning how to use various applications, such as TeXShop.app and TeX, and spend almost zero time fiddling around with installing libraries, installing updates, modifying, trying to figure out why somethings does not work. When I ask one of the 'regular' programs above to print, they print; they send the print job to the printer I've specified; they create a PDF, if that has been specified; and I don't have to piss around trying to figure out "what happened?".
>
> I neither love nor hate Mac OS X. All I know is that it works for me and with Unix sitting at the kernel level I know it is not crap. What they call "the Finder" is truly annoying, but after a while one learns how to avoid the protective clutches that the Finder wraps around the operating system. If I ever get "carried away", with Terminal.app I can even interact with the 'bash' shell which communicates with Darwin, the version of Unix that OS X uses.
>
> I still prefer the Amiga operating system, but OS X is good enough for me.
>
>
> Don Green Dragon
> fergdc@Shaw.ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Marty
Martin B. Brilliant at home in Holmdel, NJ

Hi Martin,

>> <<snip>>

>> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?
>>
>
> I could describe it by analogy with a "regular" Windows program, which you will understand if you're familiar with Windows.
>
> A "regular" Windows program, among other things, uses the fonts made available by the operating system. Generally these are the fonts that exist in the "fonts" subdirectory of the windows directory, plus any fonts made available by font managers such as Adobe Type Manager. These fonts are available to all programs that use fonts.
>
> A "regular" Windows program also uses a standard print dialog. Any program that uses a print dialog that looks different from what other programs use is not a "regular" Windows program. Microsoft Word, for some reason, uses a different print dialog, and therefore is not a "regular" Windows program.

Thanks for pointing out what happens in a Windows setting.

> A "regular" Mac program does something similar. Mac OS X provides applications with the fonts placed in certain specific folders. Some font managers change that, and specify the available fonts in different ways, but in any case all applications should have the same set of available fonts. Pagestream does not use the fonts made available by the operating system. It has a preferences dialog in which the user specifies which folders Pagestream should find its fonts in.

For PageStream 5.0.5.8 running under Snow Leopard 10.6.8 what you say is not true. When I open

Type -> Font -> Choose

the entire smear of Mac fonts appears -- from .Aqua Kana to Zapfino. I can use the fonts -- even the extreme Zapfino -- but whether I can get a printout is another matter.

> Mac OS X also provides a standard print dialog that does pretty much what the standard Windows print dialog does, except that it also provides means to create and save a PDF or to preview the printed output as a PDF. Pagestream has its own print dialog that does not look at all like the standard Mac print dialog. It has an option to use the system print dialog, which looks pretty much like the "regular" print dialog used in most other programs in Mac OS X, but many of the features in that dialog (particularly saving and previewing as a PDF) just plain don't work.

That is my experience. They just plain don't work.

> I do not print from Pagestream to a printer. I use Menu, File, Save as PDF. I then open the saved PDF in Preview (a "regular" Mac program that comes with the OS), and from there I use the standard print dialog.

Well, I'm happy that you see the above as a suitable work-around. I don't! When it comes to printing the PDF file using Preview.app there are many options, and, on too many occasions, I've chosen the wrong options which results in an unsatisfactory printout.

On occasion, I've found that I can print directly from PageStream to my HP 2605dn laserjet, and usually with satisfaction because what is being printed is not very exotic. But for printing to the Epson R3000, the PageStream interface is simply inadequate, and I must use "system printing" which, in my experience, is the road to disaster.

<<snip>>

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Martin B. Brilliant wrote:

> I don't know anything about TeXShop, but Inkscape is not a regular Mac
> program. It's a Unix/Linux program. It runs in X11 and has Unix/Linux
> like menus and dialogs. The menus are more like Windows in that the
> application menu is at the top of the window, not the top of the screen
> as in regular Mac programs. X11 itself is a regular Mac program, but the
> programs that run in it are not.

Actually X11 is a graphic user overlay found in Unix and Linux systems
which, when installed on a MAC allows you to launch a lot of unix and
linux programs within the evvironment of the MAC. MAC OSX is based on a
unix spin-off called BSD Unix - this is the underlying operating system.
On top of that one adds a graphic user interface which in the case of most
OSX macs is Aqua

here is the more technical definition of X11 from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11

"The X window system (commonly X Window System or X11, based on its
current major version being 11) is a computer software system and network
protocol that provides a basis for graphical user interfaces (GUIs) and
rich input device capability for networked computers. It creates a
hardware abstraction layer where software is written to use a generalized
set of commands, allowing for device independence and reuse of programs on
any computer that implements X. "

More about Aqua:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_%28user_interface%29

Because OSX has as its underpinning BSD Unix and because Linux is
basically a unix work alike - many non graphical user interface Unix/linux
programs run just fine on a MAC as soon as you launch them from a command
line interface.

OO means Open Office a free open source office suite that has versions
for linux, windows, and as NeoOffice, for MAC. MSO is probably
MicroSoftOffice, a close source propritary commercial office suite
which has versions for Windows and MAC.

>
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Don Green Dragon wrote:
>
>> Hi Admfubar,
>>
>> On 14Feb2012, at 10:52 AM, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Allow me to add that when I use 'regular' Mac programs to print, I
>>>>>> encounter no problems. Even the lowly TexEdit will print its
>>>>>> document properly. <<<
>>>
>>>
>>> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what
>>> is a 'regular' mac program?
>>
>>
>> Hmmmm! Good question! By 'regular' I think I meant "other than
>> PageStream". The 'regular' programs that I use on my iMac are
>> primarily:
>>
>> -- Mail.app - for downloading and uploading Email messages. Comes as
>> part of OS X.
>>
>>
>> -- Firefox.app - another web browser which does not come with OS X but
>> is free and seems to work nicely. The people who created and maintain
>> Firefox have a neat philosophy. Only used it over the last two weeks.

Firefox is produced as a cross platform browser - versions exist for MAC,
Windows, Linux, etc.

>>
>> -- Preview.app - the 'standard' PDF viewer that comes with OS X. Behind
>> the scenes lurks GhostScript. With it you can modify a PDF file a bit,
>> but the tools available are rather clumsy.
>>
Ghostscript is a classic Linux/Unix program.

>
>> -- TeXShop.app - this program is the basic reason for purchasing the
>> iMac. It is the graphic front-end for the mathematical typesetting
>> program known as TeX. For the math/physics stuff that I work in, TeX is
>> magic. In my experience, it is the best piece of software I've ever
>> used. It is free and maintained by a group of guys -- mainly men, very
>> few women involved -- who are knowledgable and very helpful, just like
>> the people who help with PageStream. This is the program that has
>> replaced PageStream when dealing with math/physics stuff. To say that
>> TeXShop.app is a "graphic" front-end is a misnomer, but I'll let it
>> pass.
>

I suspect this is based on the open source typesetting program TeX which
has many tweaked versions, LaTeX, TeXworks,TexLive, etc.

>
>> -- Inkscape.app - this is a high end vector drawing program which is
>> free but does not come with OS X. It is complex and difficult to use
>> (for me), but is quite useful because the drawings produced by
>> PageStream are often rejected by my primary program TeXShop.app. So on
>> occasion, I've had to take a vector drawing created by PageStream --
>> have many of them -- and then save them in PDF format which TeXShop.app
>> will accept. Sometimes TeXShop.app will accept an EPS file created by
>> PageStream, but not always.

InkScape is an open source, free, Unix-Linux program. It is very good in
my opinion.

http://inkscape.org/

"An Open Source vector graphics editor, with capabilities similar to
Illustrator, CorelDraw, or Xara X, using the W3C standard Scalable Vector
Graphics (SVG) file format."

>>
>> I still prefer the Amiga operating system, but OS X is good enough for
>> me.

I am a great fan of the Amiga but with its demise I have found that I
prefer Linux to Windows or MAC OS. We have a number of Apple
products and they work well but I prefer not to be trapped in a
"guilded cage". Also an Intel machine I can put Linux on is a LOT less
expensive than a MAC.

Mostly I save my PageStream documents as PFD's and print them out from
the PDF viewer.

>>
>>
>> Don Green Dragon fergdc@Shaw.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bonnie Dalzell, MA
mailO box 9767 Baldwin, MD, USA 21013 | EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
shipping adddress:5100 Hydes Rd 21082 (Hydes Post Office closed Jan 2012)
Freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
HOME www.batw.net ART bdalzellart.batw.net BUSINESS www.boardingatwedge.com

On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:44 PM, Don Green Dragon wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
>>> <<snip>>
>
>>> Please refine this definition for the rest of us non mac users... what is a 'regular' mac program?
>>

...

> Thanks for pointing out what happens in a Windows setting.
>
>
>> A "regular" Mac program does something similar. Mac OS X provides applications with the fonts placed in certain specific folders. Some font managers change that, and specify the available fonts in different ways, but in any case all applications should have the same set of available fonts. Pagestream does not use the fonts made available by the operating system. It has a preferences dialog in which the user specifies which folders Pagestream should find its fonts in.
>
> For PageStream 5.0.5.8 running under Snow Leopard 10.6.8 what you say is not true. When I open
>
> Type -> Font -> Choose
>
> the entire smear of Mac fonts appears -- from .Aqua Kana to Zapfino. I can use the fonts -- even the extreme Zapfino -- but whether I can get a printout is another matter.

That's optional; if you uncheck "Use system fonts" you don't get the whole shmear. I admit error: I thought Pagestream didn't get all the fonts in all three standard font folders. But no "regular" Mac program can exclude the system fonts or include fonts from other folders.

Comment on what follows: truth to tell, I haven't fully exercised the print-to-paper capabilities, because my final output is PDF. I suppose that's why our judgments differ. I do use print to paper, via Preview, to get a proof copy. The proof copy is good enough for checking spelling and punctuation, and the image quality comes out OK in the PDF.

>
>> Mac OS X also provides a standard print dialog that does pretty much what the standard Windows print dialog does, except that it also provides means to create and save a PDF or to preview the printed output as a PDF. Pagestream has its own print dialog that does not look at all like the standard Mac print dialog. It has an option to use the system print dialog, which looks pretty much like the "regular" print dialog used in most other programs in Mac OS X, but many of the features in that dialog (particularly saving and previewing as a PDF) just plain don't work.
>
> That is my experience. They just plain don't work.
>
>
>> I do not print from Pagestream to a printer. I use Menu, File, Save as PDF. I then open the saved PDF in Preview (a "regular" Mac program that comes with the OS), and from there I use the standard print dialog.
>
> Well, I'm happy that you see the above as a suitable work-around. I don't! When it comes to printing the PDF file using Preview.app there are many options, and, on too many occasions, I've chosen the wrong options which results in an unsatisfactory printout.
>
> On occasion, I've found that I can print directly from PageStream to my HP 2605dn laserjet, and usually with satisfaction because what is being printed is not very exotic. But for printing to the Epson R3000, the PageStream interface is simply inadequate, and I must use "system printing" which, in my experience, is the road to disaster.
>
> <<snip>>
>
>
> Don Green Dragon
> fergdc@Shaw.ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Marty
Martin B. Brilliant at home in Holmdel, NJ

Hi Martin,

On 15Feb2012, at 7:21 PM, Martin B. Brilliant wrote:

> I don't know anything about TeXShop, but Inkscape is not a regular Mac program. It's a Unix/Linux program. It runs in X11 and has Unix/Linux like menus and dialogs. The menus are more like Windows in that the application menu is at the top of the window, not the top of the screen as in regular Mac programs. X11 itself is a regular Mac program, but the programs that run in it are not.

Yes, you are quite correct. I should not have included it as a 'regular' program in the sense that you have explained. To me, Inkscape has an 'uncomfortable' "fee" but, so far, it works well.

<<snip>>

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

Hi Bonnie,

On 15Feb2012, at 7:57 PM, Bonnie Dalzell wrote:

<<snip>>

>>> -- Preview.app - the 'standard' PDF viewer that comes with OS X. Behind
>>> the scenes lurks GhostScript. With it you can modify a PDF file a bit,
>>> but the tools available are rather clumsy.
>>>
> Ghostscript is a classic Linux/Unix program.

It, GhostScript, is also used by the TeX people, but I don't know the details.
>
>>
>>> -- TeXShop.app - this program is the basic reason for purchasing the
>>> iMac. It is the graphic front-end for the mathematical typesetting
>>> program known as TeX. For the math/physics stuff that I work in, TeX is
>>> magic. In my experience, it is the best piece of software I've ever
>>> used. It is free and maintained by a group of guys -- mainly men, very
>>> few women involved -- who are knowledgable and very helpful, just like
>>> the people who help with PageStream. This is the program that has
>>> replaced PageStream when dealing with math/physics stuff. To say that
>>> TeXShop.app is a "graphic" front-end is a misnomer, but I'll let it
>>> pass.
>>
>
> I suspect this is based on the open source typesetting program TeX which
> has many tweaked versions, LaTeX, TeXworks,TexLive, etc.

TeXShop is essentially a very nice front-end for LaTeX; i.e., helps one in preparing source code that LaTeX grabs, manipulates, and then feeds the underlying TeX engine. You mention TeXWorks, which has the same function as TeXShop but I've not used it. There are many other 'TeXShops', ConTeXt is one that comes to mind.

>>> -- Inkscape.app - this is a high end vector drawing program which is
>>> free but does not come with OS X. It is complex and difficult to use
>>> (for me), but is quite useful because the drawings produced by
>>> PageStream are often rejected by my primary program TeXShop.app. So on
>>> occasion, I've had to take a vector drawing created by PageStream --
>>> have many of them -- and then save them in PDF format which TeXShop.app
>>> will accept. Sometimes TeXShop.app will accept an EPS file created by
>>> PageStream, but not always.
>
> InkScape is an open source, free, Unix-Linux program. It is very good in
> my opinion

Good! I bought Tavmjong Bah's manual, but find using it slow going.

>>> I still prefer the Amiga operating system, but OS X is good enough for
>>> me.
>
> I am a great fan of the Amiga but with its demise I have found that I
> prefer Linux to Windows or MAC OS. We have a number of Apple
> products and they work well but I prefer not to be trapped in a
> "guilded cage". Also an Intel machine I can put Linux on is a LOT less
> expensive than a MAC.

Interesting! :--)

<<snip>>

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

Hi Martin,

<<snip>>

>>> A "regular" Mac program does something similar. Mac OS X provides applications with the fonts placed in certain specific folders. Some font managers change that, and specify the available fonts in different ways, but in any case all applications should have the same set of available fonts. Pagestream does not use the fonts made available by the operating system. It has a preferences dialog in which the user specifies which folders Pagestream should find its fonts in.
>>
>> For PageStream 5.0.5.8 running under Snow Leopard 10.6.8 what you say is not true. When I open
>>
>> Type -> Font -> Choose
>>
>> the entire smear of Mac fonts appears -- from .Aqua Kana to Zapfino. I can use the fonts -- even the extreme Zapfino -- but whether I can get a printout is another matter.
>
>
> That's optional; if you uncheck "Use system fonts" you don't get the whole shmear. I admit error: I thought Pagestream didn't get all the fonts in all three standard font folders.

I have "Include SystemFonts" check-marked because I've been too lazy to bring over some of the nicer fonts from my AmigaOne.

> But no "regular" Mac program can exclude the system fonts or include fonts from other folders.

What? Is that true? Crazy! By 'crazy' I mean that part where fonts from other folders cannot be used! Surely Mac users add huge font collections to the basic ones that come with OS X! I've not done that.

> Comment on what follows: truth to tell, I haven't fully exercised the print-to-paper capabilities, because my final output is PDF. I suppose that's why our judgments differ. I do use print to paper, via Preview, to get a proof copy. The proof copy is good enough for checking spelling and punctuation, and the image quality comes out OK in the PDF.

I suppose I should give the PDF route another try. I broke my ENOUGH declaration today and did a PGS to PDF, and took a look! Looked okay with Preview.app and with Preview.app I can access the bells and whistles on the Epson R3000. Did not do a printout. Maybe soon! :--)

> <<snip>>

Don Green Dragon
fergdc@Shaw.ca

On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:52 AM, Don Green Dragon wrote:

> ...
>>
>> But no "regular" Mac program can exclude the system fonts or include fonts from other folders.
>
> What? Is that true? Crazy! By 'crazy' I mean that part where fonts from other folders cannot be used! Surely Mac users add huge font collections to the basic ones that come with OS X! I've not done that.
> ...

Users can add fonts, but ordinarily every application program has access to the same set of fonts.

I haven't drilled down into Linux font management, and I've never used Amiga OS.

In Windows, there is one font folder (another if your have Adobe Type Manager). You can add fonts to the fonts supplied with the OS but (normally) they go into that one folder when you add them. There is a check box to copy fonts to Fonts folder, checked by default, and I always leave it checked.

Back in Windows 3.1 each TrueType font had a corresponding .fot file in the system folder that told where the .ttf file was. Normally the .ttf file was in the same folder but it could be anywhere.

In Mac OS X there are three font folders. /System/Library/Fonts has fonts that are supplied with the OS and "cannot" be removed. /Library/Fonts has fonts that are supplied with the OS and can be removed, as well as fonts added by users with administrator privileges. [user]/Library/Fonts has fonts that the user adds and that are available only to that user. Some font managers have other arrangements to use other folders.

Pagestream is the only application I know of that has options to use fonts other than those provided by the operating system or the font manager. Put it another way: Pagestream is the only application program I know of that has its own font manager. That alone would disqualify it as a "regular" Mac program.

Amiga OS may be different. I get the impression that it's not unusual for application programs in Amiga OS to have their own font management. It is unusual in newer operating systems.

--
Martin B. Brilliant - mbrilliant@alum.mit.edu
Mac OS X version 10.6.8
PageStream (non-pro) 5.0.5.8

Hi Martin,

If you had been doing DTP for a while you would know that font management in DTP has historically not relied on the OS provided font system because it is inadequate. Quark didn't use its own, it required a third party font management system to work around limitations in OS font management. I've been out of touch with Quark for a while, but I expect it is still typical for users of DTP to use font managers as Windows doesn't provide font management and OSX, though vastly improved, doesn't quite meet the needs. Linux is a sad joke in this regard, though it is getting closer to Windows these days.

PgS provides its own font manager -- you aren't required to spend more money on getting one. You don't have to worry about keeping updates between the two in sync. It has some bugs that should be fixed and could use some additional capabilities, but that isn't what you are complaining about.

I find it interesting that PgS isn't enough for some people, but they still feel compelled to use it, or at least talk about it on the support list. If PgS stopped being useful to me I'd find a tool that was and focus on it.

A project I've been working on in my limited free time is slowly coming together. It is laid out in PgS with the speech/thought balloons being the product of vector path unions converted to text frames (one thing I've always appreciated about PgS is how any shape can become a text frame). I've used TextFX, frameless text, paragraph and object styles to ease uniformity, filled and outlined text, comment text to ease identification of frame numbers, and I'm not sure what all else. Because some of the advertisement text didn't flow nicely around advertisement graphics I used custom shapes for text frames to give greater control without putting break codes into the text. The pasteboard is littered with objects used to facilitate production (particularly, but not entirely, different vector shapes for use to create thought balloons).

The draft was produced by 'printing' to an image file sequence and making a PDF of that in Acrobat. This method allowed me to rasterize text and limit the quality to screen level so it isn't really suitable for printing. It is at a final draft stage: the contents are fixed and I'm proofing it before finalizing as production.

With the stage it is in as a qualifier, this is an example of what PgS can be used to create.http://ylansi.net/TheThreeLittlePigsVsTheBigBadWolf-1stOnline.pdf

Tim Doty

On Feb 17, 2012, at 7:51 AM, Martin B. Brilliant wrote:

> On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:52 AM, Don Green Dragon wrote:
>
> > ...
> >>
> >> But no "regular" Mac program can exclude the system fonts or include fonts from other folders.
> >
> > What? Is that true? Crazy! By 'crazy' I mean that part where fonts from other folders cannot be used! Surely Mac users add huge font collections to the basic ones that come with OS X! I've not done that.
> > ...
>
> Users can add fonts, but ordinarily every application program has access to the same set of fonts.
>
> I haven't drilled down into Linux font management, and I've never used Amiga OS.
>
> In Windows, there is one font folder (another if your have Adobe Type Manager). You can add fonts to the fonts supplied with the OS but (normally) they go into that one folder when you add them. There is a check box to copy fonts to Fonts folder, checked by default, and I always leave it checked.
>
> Back in Windows 3.1 each TrueType font had a corresponding .fot file in the system folder that told where the .ttf file was. Normally the .ttf file was in the same folder but it could be anywhere.
>
> In Mac OS X there are three font folders. /System/Library/Fonts has fonts that are supplied with the OS and "cannot" be removed. /Library/Fonts has fonts that are supplied with the OS and can be removed, as well as fonts added by users with administrator privileges. [user]/Library/Fonts has fonts that the user adds and that are available only to that user. Some font managers have other arrangements to use other folders.
>
> Pagestream is the only application I know of that has options to use fonts other than those provided by the operating system or the font manager. Put it another way: Pagestream is the only application program I know of that has its own font manager. That alone would disqualify it as a "regular" Mac program.
>
> Amiga OS may be different. I get the impression that it's not unusual for application programs in Amiga OS to have their own font management. It is unusual in newer operating systems.
>
> --
> Martin B. Brilliant - mbrilliant@alum.mit.edu
> Mac OS X version 10.6.8
> PageStream (non-pro) 5.0.5.8
>
>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Don Green Dragon wrote:
>

> <<snip>>
>>>> I still prefer the Amiga operating system, but OS X is good enough for
>>>> me.
>>
>> I am a great fan of the Amiga but with its demise I have found that I
>> prefer Linux to Windows or MAC OS. We have a number of Apple
>> products and they work well but I prefer not to be trapped in a
>> "guilded cage". Also an Intel machine I can put Linux on is a LOT less
>> expensive than a MAC.
>
> Interesting! :--)

for example the machine I currently use (cause I needed the old graphics
card to run Amithlon) was built in 2002 - it is a old athlon computer
with one GB of memory but lots of harddrives. The linux OS can read a
native amiga formatted harddrive so a lot of my images generated in the
amiga days are easily available to me on this system from linux.

If you go to your favorite computer store and ask them what they have
sitting around that is not capable of making the leap to the latest
version of the Microsoft OS then you can often get a machine for under
$100, put a couple of larger harddrives in it and install Ubuntu Linux
from a free bootable cd you made from the downloads section of the
Ubuntu site. It is amazing how fast linux will run even on older
machines. if the cheap machine is old enough (such as mine now is) you
may need to install Xubuntu rather than Ubuntu.

Xubuntu uses a gui desktop that is less demanding on resources than the
current desktop used on mainstream ubuntu.

of course I have a much newer than 2002 dell computer (that cost nme $275)
sitting on the floor that i need to load Ununtu into - just have not
felt the need yet. although linux does keep the menus in the window of the
application, unlike MAC and Amiga, you can personalize the open close
minimize buttons to be on the left and the back front buttons to be on the
right.

Linux makes it easy to do commmand line things if you wish to - which in
my experience improves your overall computer skills - and has an enormous
number of open source programs, bith GUI and command line - that you can
obtain. What I miss from my Amiga is ImageFX and TurboText and
DiskMaster.

NEdit is sort of inspired by TurboText but I have not figured out how to
save keystroke macros and add them to the menu.

Things like Gnome-Commander do some of the things that diskmaster did
but there are features of ImageFX that I have not yet seen duplicated.

sigh.....

>
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bonnie Dalzell, MA
mailO box 9767 Baldwin, MD, USA 21013 | EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
shipping adddress:5100 Hydes Rd 21082 (Hydes Post Office closed Jan 2012)
Freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
HOME www.batw.net ART bdalzellart.batw.net BUSINESS www.boardingatwedge.com

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:06:57 -0500, Bonnie Dalzell <bdalzell@qis.net> wrote:

>
> Linux makes it easy to do commmand line things if you wish to - which inmy experience improves your overall computer skills - and has an enormousnumber of open source programs, bith GUI and command line - that you canobtain. What I miss from my Amiga is ImageFX and TurboText andDiskMaster.
>
> NEdit is sort of inspired by TurboText but I have not figured out how tosave keystroke macros and add them to the menu.
>
> Things like Gnome-Commander do some of the things that diskmaster didbut there are features of ImageFX that I have not yet seen duplicated.
I miss ImageFX too i used to beta test for ifx.. had it doing things even they didnt realize it could do.
if you've not tried it, G'MIC is a wonderful plugin for the gimp. reminds me of a lot of the tools in ifx.

http://gmic.sourceforge.net/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 17, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Tim Doty wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> If you had been doing DTP for a while you would know that font management in DTP has historically not relied on the OS provided font system because it is inadequate. Quark didn't use its own, it required a third party font management system to work around limitations in OS font management....

Thanks, Tim.

Please explain. I've been producing a monthly newsletter since June of 2002 but maybe you wouldn't call that DTP, since I've been using mid-range applications in MS Windows, first Serif PagePlus, and then old versions of Microsoft Publisher. In Mac OS X, my price/performance choice was Pagestream non-Pro. I haven't had any problems installing as many fonts as I need. My only complaint is that when a family has more than 4 members, Windows and many otherwise "regular" Mac apps won't recognize any but the usual four.

What am I missing in not using a font manager? And/or, what can Pagestream's font management do that I'm not taking advantage of?

--
Martin B. Brilliant - mbrilliant@alum.mit.edu
Mac OS X version 10.6.8
PageStream (non-pro) 5.0.5.8

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:06:57 -0500, Bonnie Dalzell <bdalzell@qis.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Linux makes it easy to do commmand line things if you wish to - which inmy
>> experience improves your overall computer skills - and has an
>> enormousnumber of open source programs, bith GUI and command line - that
>> you canobtain. What I miss from my Amiga is ImageFX and TurboText
>> andDiskMaster.
>>
>> NEdit is sort of inspired by TurboText but I have not figured out how
>> tosave keystroke macros and add them to the menu.
>>
>> Things like Gnome-Commander do some of the things that diskmaster didbut
>> there are features of ImageFX that I have not yet seen duplicated.
> I miss ImageFX too i used to beta test for ifx.. had it doing things even
> they didnt realize it could do.
> if you've not tried it, G'MIC is a wonderful plugin for the gimp. reminds me
> of a lot of the tools in ifx.
>
>http://gmic.sourceforge.net/

thanks for the tip!

what i miss the most about imagefx was the ease with which a brush could
be grabbed and then the ease with wich you could draw with it, do a
smeared out flood fill and other things. I used that capabililty in
restoring scans of old damaged photographs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bonnie Dalzell, MA
mailO box 9767 Baldwin, MD, USA 21013 | EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
shipping adddress:5100 Hydes Rd 21082 (Hydes Post Office closed Jan 2012)
Freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
HOME www.batw.net ART bdalzellart.batw.net BUSINESS www.boardingatwedge.com

grab Xara out of the ubuntu market, really handy, I use it and there latest
versions in window with vmware
Ubuntu 11.10

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Bonnie Dalzell <bdalzell@qis.net> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, admfubar@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:06:57 -0500, Bonnie Dalzell <bdalzell@qis.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Linux makes it easy to do commmand line things if you wish to - which
> inmy
> >> experience improves your overall computer skills - and has an
> >> enormousnumber of open source programs, bith GUI and command line -
> that
> >> you canobtain. What I miss from my Amiga is ImageFX and TurboText
> >> andDiskMaster.
> >>
> >> NEdit is sort of inspired by TurboText but I have not figured out how
> >> tosave keystroke macros and add them to the menu.
> >>
> >> Things like Gnome-Commander do some of the things that diskmaster
> didbut
> >> there are features of ImageFX that I have not yet seen duplicated.
> > I miss ImageFX too i used to beta test for ifx.. had it doing things
> even
> > they didnt realize it could do.
> > if you've not tried it, G'MIC is a wonderful plugin for the gimp.
> reminds me
> > of a lot of the tools in ifx.
> >
> >http://gmic.sourceforge.net/
>
> thanks for the tip!
>
> what i miss the most about imagefx was the ease with which a brush could
> be grabbed and then the ease with wich you could draw with it, do a
> smeared out flood fill and other things. I used that capabililty in
> restoring scans of old damaged photographs.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Bonnie Dalzell, MA
> mailO box 9767 Baldwin, MD, USA 21013 | EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
> shipping adddress:5100 Hydes Rd 21082 (Hydes Post Office closed Jan 2012)
> Freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
> breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
> HOME www.batw.net ART bdalzellart.batw.net BUSINESS
> www.boardingatwedge.com
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 02/14/2012, Don Green Dragon wrote:

> Hello PageStream Users,
>
> [Horror story omitted.]

Wow, I'm glad I never gave into the temptation to get an iMac!
--
Bart Mathias
AmigaOne XE-G4 OS4.1u4

On 02/17/2012, Tim Doty wrote:

> [...], this is an example of what PgS
> can be used to create.http://ylansi.net/

The 1843 version is familiar to me. Strange; I'm only 76½ and wasn't even
born then.

One part of it I find hard to believe. Why would men give pigs straw, gorse,
and bricks for free, even if the pigs could talk?
--
Bart Mathias
AmigaOne XE-G4 OS4.1u4