Hi, I'm almost done my children's book. It's very graphics intensive, with 26 very high resolution full page illustrations (600 dpi 8.5" by 11" images at about 96MB each) and many other smaller high resolution images as well. So in the document there is text (obviously), these many high resolution images, path line drawings, etc. All high-res bitmaps are "external" to the document.

I need to publish to PDF in order to get the book printed and bound via Lulu.com (online vanity press type service).

I'm just starting to read up on how to publish to PDF in Pagestream, but I did a quick "save to PDF" yesterday before I read the manual just to see what would happen. There were some unpredictable results; some small images were missing and some of the large images came out looking pixelated (i.e. very low resolution) while others came out fine.

So, while I realise I need to read the manual, I'm just putting out a message here asking for PDF tips and warnings - maybe there are some pitfalls, quirks, etc. in PageStream's PDF function that some of you have encountered and can help me avoid.

Is PDF publishing in PageStream a mature feature?

Lulu.com also insists that all fonts be embedded in the PDF document. Can PageStream do this? I didn't see an option for this.

Thanks,
Brent

Hi Brent,

When Total Amiga was produced in pagestream, Robert printed as a .ps file and
used AmiGS to convert (print) to pdf.

He then used to send the output to a commercial printer, for printing.
I think there was some problem with pagestreams pdf output, and as that is the last stable
and fully working version, I cannot see how things have improved.

I would try then amiGS route, and see how you get on.

Peter
(aka Swoop)

On 2 Jul 2012, at 14:14, Brent wrote:

> Hi, I'm almost done my children's book. It's very graphics intensive, with 26 very high resolution full page illustrations (600 dpi 8.5" by 11" images at about 96MB each) and many other smaller high resolution images as well. So in the document there is text (obviously), these many high resolution images, path line drawings, etc. All high-res bitmaps are "external" to the document.
>
> I need to publish to PDF in order to get the book printed and bound via Lulu.com (online vanity press type service).
>
> I'm just starting to read up on how to publish to PDF in Pagestream, but I did a quick "save to PDF" yesterday before I read the manual just to see what would happen. There were some unpredictable results; some small images were missing and some of the large images came out looking pixelated (i.e. very low resolution) while others came out fine.
>
> So, while I realise I need to read the manual, I'm just putting out a message here asking for PDF tips and warnings - maybe there are some pitfalls, quirks, etc. in PageStream's PDF function that some of you have encountered and can help me avoid.
>
> Is PDF publishing in PageStream a mature feature?
>
> Lulu.com also insists that all fonts be embedded in the PDF document. Can PageStream do this? I didn't see an option for this.
>
> Thanks,
> Brent
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I can't find any documentation on the "resize bitmaps" option in PageStream.

Also, I wonder the problem I am experiencing regarding pixelization of bitmaps when I try to play with the resize bitmaps option is related to this bug report:

http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=315

The original images in my PageStream document are all 600dpi. For the PDF I want everything reduced to and output at 300dpi (downsampled).

-Brent

I'm having another problem outputting to PDF in that a bitmap with a transparent background juts won't show up in the final PDF. I remember reading an online document saying this was a known limitation - I had hoped this was an old document...but it seems this feature has not yet been implemented.

http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=100

I just published a 150-page book using PageStream 5.0.3.1. Pro for windows, and saved in PDF format. Prior to emailing the file to the printers, I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, just to make sure. The only problem encountered: Photos cropped in PageStream did not translate. The photos appeared in their full size. It was a simple matter of cropping the photos externally in a paint program beforehand. The results were a perfect rendition of what I had created in PageStream. Photos that were merely resized, and not cropped, came out exactly as laid out. None of the photos appeared in low resolution. They started out much larger than the page, and just resized. Also, I did not leave the photos external - they were all embedded in the document. I hope this is of help.

________________________________
From: Brent <woodenflutes@yahoo.ca>
To: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: [PageStreamSupport] Going to publish to PDF

 
Hi, I'm almost done my children's book. It's very graphics intensive, with 26 very high resolution full page illustrations (600 dpi 8.5" by 11" images at about 96MB each) and many other smaller high resolution images as well. So in the document there is text (obviously), these many high resolution images, path line drawings, etc. All high-res bitmaps are "external" to the document.

I need to publish to PDF in order to get the book printed and bound via Lulu.com (online vanity press type service).

I'm just starting to read up on how to publish to PDF in Pagestream, but I did a quick "save to PDF" yesterday before I read the manual just to see what would happen. There were some unpredictable results; some small images were missing and some of the large images came out looking pixelated (i.e. very low resolution) while others came out fine.

So, while I realise I need to read the manual, I'm just putting out a message here asking for PDF tips and warnings - maybe there are some pitfalls, quirks, etc. in PageStream's PDF function that some of you have encountered and can help me avoid.

Is PDF publishing in PageStream a mature feature?

Lulu.com also insists that all fonts be embedded in the PDF document. Can PageStream do this? I didn't see an option for this.

Thanks,
Brent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 7/2/2012 11:54 AM, Rick Buxton wrote:
>
> I just published a 150-page book using PageStream 5.0.3.1. Pro for
> windows, and saved in PDF format. Prior to emailing the file to the
> printers, I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, just to make sure. The
> only problem encountered: Photos cropped in PageStream did not
> translate. The photos appeared in their full size. It was a simple
> matter of cropping the photos externally in a paint program
> beforehand. The results were a perfect rendition of what I had created
> in PageStream. Photos that were merely resized, and not cropped, came
> out exactly as laid out. None of the photos appeared in low
> resolution. They started out much larger than the page, and just
> resized. Also, I did not leave the photos external - they were all
> embedded in the document. I hope this is of help.
>

I believe if you had converted the photos to drawings before saving the
file as .pdf, they'd have worked just fine.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brent <woodenflutes@yahoo.ca <mailto:woodenflutes%40yahoo.ca>>
> To: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com
> <mailtoageStreamSupport%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2012 7:14 AM
> Subject: [PageStreamSupport] Going to publish to PDF
>
>
>
> Hi, I'm almost done my children's book. It's very graphics intensive,
> with 26 very high resolution full page illustrations (600 dpi 8.5" by
> 11" images at about 96MB each) and many other smaller high resolution
> images as well. So in the document there is text (obviously), these
> many high resolution images, path line drawings, etc. All high-res
> bitmaps are "external" to the document.
>
> I need to publish to PDF in order to get the book printed and bound
> via Lulu.com (online vanity press type service).
>
> I'm just starting to read up on how to publish to PDF in Pagestream,
> but I did a quick "save to PDF" yesterday before I read the manual
> just to see what would happen. There were some unpredictable results;
> some small images were missing and some of the large images came out
> looking pixelated (i.e. very low resolution) while others came out fine.
>
> So, while I realise I need to read the manual, I'm just putting out a
> message here asking for PDF tips and warnings - maybe there are some
> pitfalls, quirks, etc. in PageStream's PDF function that some of you
> have encountered and can help me avoid.
>
> Is PDF publishing in PageStream a mature feature?
>
> Lulu.com also insists that all fonts be embedded in the PDF document.
> Can PageStream do this? I didn't see an option for this.
>
> Thanks,
> Brent
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--

DAVID L. STEVENS -- TEAM AMIGA --
Windows XP user (:^(> on Acer Aspire 9810 2.16 GHz Notebook
2 GB RAM; 3 150-GB Hard Drives; CanoScan LIDE 20
Canon i860 & Brother HL-5050 PageStream v5.0.5.7 Pro
<http://home.comcast.net/~dave_stevens/home.html
<http://home.comcast.net/%7Edave_stevens/home.html>>
I do not necessarily agree with my taglines

***
Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

--- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Rick Buxton <rickbuxton@...> wrote:
>
> I just published a 150-page book using PageStream 5.0.3.1. Pro for windows, and saved in PDF format. Prior to emailing the file to the printers, I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, just to make sure. The only problem encountered: Photos cropped in PageStream did not translate. The photos appeared in their full size. It was a simple matter of cropping the photos externally in a paint program beforehand.

-----

That's interesting - I didn't know that. I've got a few cropped images in my document.

Well, if I can't get a WISIWYG PDF, I might have to general bitmaps of each page and assemble the bitmaps into a PDF (not as efficient, but accurate at least).

- Brent

I believe that the cropped pictures come out good! Only the size are at
full size (Bytes).
So, you expect that a 4 MB picture, cropped in PGS, come out with less
Bytes (less pixels, less Bytes). No, in PGS 5.0.5.8 it is still 4 MB.
That is where Ernest, me and Deron are talking about at:
http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=315

So, I have no problems with making any PDF from PGS, only the size of
the PDF could be smaller (in Bytes). That's what I am doing in Adobe
Acrobat; shrinking the PDF-size.
And I don't use a transparent background, that's where I am lucky?!

Theo

Op 2-7-2012 20:32, Brent schreef:
>
> --- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Rick Buxton <rickbuxton@...> wrote:
>> I just published a 150-page book using PageStream 5.0.3.1. Pro for windows, and saved in PDF format. Prior to emailing the file to the printers, I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, just to make sure. The only problem encountered: Photos cropped in PageStream did not translate. The photos appeared in their full size. It was a simple matter of cropping the photos externally in a paint program beforehand.
> -----
>
> That's interesting - I didn't know that. I've got a few cropped images in my document.
>
> Well, if I can't get a WISIWYG PDF, I might have to general bitmaps of each page and assemble the bitmaps into a PDF (not as efficient, but accurate at least).
>
> - Brent
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
PageStream Pro 5.0.5.8 on Windows 7 Pro 64 bits (Dutch), Python 2.7.2 and PySide 1.1.0
AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 215 Processor at 2.70 GHz and 4 GB RAM

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:34:32 +0200, Theo Zweers wrote:

> I believe that the cropped pictures come out good! Only the size are at
> full size (Bytes).
> So, you expect that a 4 MB picture, cropped in PGS, come out with less
> Bytes (less pixels, less Bytes). No, in PGS 5.0.5.8 it is still 4 MB.
> That is where Ernest, me and Deron are talking about at:
>http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=315

> So, I have no problems with making any PDF from PGS, only the size of
> the PDF could be smaller (in Bytes). That's what I am doing in Adobe
> Acrobat; shrinking the PDF-size.
> And I don't use a transparent background, that's where I am lucky?!
> Theo

I don't belive the graphic should be smaller in size.

The graphic is loaded into PGS. You then cover part of the graphic (with
text, cropping tool etc) but the graphic is still there in full.

A bit like putting a photo on the table, then covering parts of the photo
with cut out shapes.

Also, I believe that PDF doesn't handle transparency, it's not PGS fault
there.

> Op 2-7-2012 20:32, Brent schreef:
>>
>> --- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Rick Buxton <rickbuxton@...>
>> wrote:
>> I just published a 150-page book using PageStream 5.0.3.1. Pro for
>>> windows, and saved in PDF format. Prior to emailing the file to the
>> printers, I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, just to make sure. The
>> only problem encountered: Photos cropped in PageStream did not
>> translate. The photos appeared in their full size. It was a simple
>> matter of cropping the photos externally in a paint program
>> beforehand.
> -----
>>
>> That's interesting - I didn't know that. I've got a few cropped
>> images in my document.

>> Well, if I can't get a WISIWYG PDF, I might have to general bitmaps of
>> each page and assemble the bitmaps into a PDF (not as efficient, but
>> accurate at least).

>> - Brent

Bye for now,
--

Tagline?

Russell Butler A1200 Power Tower, Blizzard 50mhz 060 with SCSI
Mediator TX1200, Fast Ethernet, Soundblaster, Hauppage TV
196mb RAM, 256mb Radeon, Spider USB, IDE 2Gb & 40Gb drives, CDRW

wurzel@jerseymail.co.uk
wurzel@hotmail.co.uk Member, Team AMIGA The Amiga lives on!
www.wurzel.co.uk Past President, Jersey Junior Chamber (JCI)

weather: Rain : 15.00 C, 59.00 F
Winds : South 13.81 MPH, 22.23 KPH, 12.00 Knots
Jersey Airport (EGJJ), United Kingdom

Op 3-7-2012 9:01, wurzel schreef:
> On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:34:32 +0200, Theo Zweers wrote:
>
>> I believe that the cropped pictures come out good! Only the size are at
>> full size (Bytes).
>> So, you expect that a 4 MB picture, cropped in PGS, come out with less
>> Bytes (less pixels, less Bytes). No, in PGS 5.0.5.8 it is still 4 MB.
>> That is where Ernest, me and Deron are talking about at:
>>http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=315
>> So, I have no problems with making any PDF from PGS, only the size of
>> the PDF could be smaller (in Bytes). That's what I am doing in Adobe
>> Acrobat; shrinking the PDF-size.
>> And I don't use a transparent background, that's where I am lucky?!
>> Theo
> I don't belive the graphic should be smaller in size.

Hi Wurzel,

Why not? I think you are wrong here.
You do not print a 2400 dpi picture at full size to a printer which
allows only 300 dpi? If you are smart (at least in the Amiga days where
memory was small), you did reduce the dpi's from a bitmap picture
before sending it to PGS.

I think this is the same for PDF's. You don't need all the pixels for a
good outcome.
So, PGS gives me a PDF at 5 MB (for instance), while Adobe reduce this
to 3 MB. The outcome does look great, both of them!

>
> The graphic is loaded into PGS. You then cover part of the graphic (with
> text, cropping tool etc) but the graphic is still there in full.
>
> A bit like putting a photo on the table, then covering parts of the photo
> with cut out shapes.
>
> Also, I believe that PDF doesn't handle transparency, it's not PGS fault
> there.

True!

Theo

>
>
>> Op 2-7-2012 20:32, Brent schreef:
>>> --- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Rick Buxton <rickbuxton@...>
>>> wrote:
>>> I just published a 150-page book using PageStream 5.0.3.1. Pro for
>>>> windows, and saved in PDF format. Prior to emailing the file to the
>>> printers, I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, just to make sure. The
>>> only problem encountered: Photos cropped in PageStream did not
>>> translate. The photos appeared in their full size. It was a simple
>>> matter of cropping the photos externally in a paint program
>>> beforehand.
>> -----
>>> That's interesting - I didn't know that. I've got a few cropped
>>> images in my document.
>>> Well, if I can't get a WISIWYG PDF, I might have to general bitmaps of
>>> each page and assemble the bitmaps into a PDF (not as efficient, but
>>> accurate at least).
>>> - Brent
>
>
> Bye for now,

--
PageStream Pro 5.0.5.8 on Windows 7 Pro 64 bits (Dutch), Python 2.7.2 and PySide 1.1.0
AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 215 Processor at 2.70 GHz and 4 GB RAM

Hello, just a quick note:

On Jul 03, 2012, at 02:01 AM, wurzel <wurzel@jerseymail.co.uk> wrote:

> Also, I believe that PDF doesn't handle transparency, it's not PGS fault
> there.

PostScript (from which PDF is derived) allows at most a 1-bit transparency mask, and even that requires level 3. ATM I don't recall for sure (getting old...) but I think PDF may have improved that.

What I do for transparency in bit maps is use PNG because it has 8-bit alpha channel, or I mask the graphic. I've done a smaller effort than the others here on a comic, but the PDF output of PgS worked just fine. Admittedly, I made all the graphics internal, but I don't believe that makes a bit of difference other than PgS's preview.

There *are* limits to what PgS can output to PDF. For example, doing a gradient shape fill doesn't work as expected. This is due to the constraints of PDF and PgS doesn't automatically work around them. Annoying, but they can be worked around: simply determine your output resolution, export the object to bitmap (I like PNG, especially as my shape fills often have variable transparency), and use the replace graphic script. To keep the original vector information set the object as non-printable or put it in a non-visible layer.

At least in an older version of PgS there was an issue with cropped graphics not being cropped on output to PDF and I don't recall if that has been fixed -- the cropping is mostly a convenience for not having to be exacting in production of the original image and it is simple enough to crop in an image editor (annoying perhaps, but easy). As these days I tend to work from images I create, I just create them how I want them so cropping isn't much of an issue for me personally. YMMV

Maybe not as quick a note as I imagined

Tim Doty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Brent,

On Jul 02, 2012, at 12:02 PM, Brent <woodenflutes@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I'm having another problem outputting to PDF in that a bitmap with a transparent background juts won't show up in the final PDF. I remember reading an online document saying this was a known limitation - I had hoped this was an old document...but it seems this feature has not yet been implemented.

What format is the bitmap image? I recommend PNG and use it all the time.

Tim Doty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Tim Doty <thoromyr@...> wrote:
>
> What format is the bitmap image? I recommend PNG and use it all the time.

It is PNG with a transparency alpha channel. Looks great in PageStream, but when rendered to PDF all transparent PNGs are not present.

Since there were only a few transparent bitmaps in the document, I just made the PNGs into non-transparent bitmaps instead (filled the "background" with a colour to match the PageStream page's background.

Still, would be nice to figure out how to use transparent PNGs in PageStream generated PDFs.

- Brent

On 7/3/12 6:03 AM, Brent wrote:
> --- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Tim Doty <thoromyr@...> wrote:
>> What format is the bitmap image? I recommend PNG and use it all the time.
> It is PNG with a transparency alpha channel. Looks great in PageStream, but when rendered to PDF all transparent PNGs are not present.

What version of PageStream are you using, and what viewer are you using?
Latest PageStream's do output correct transparent bitmaps, but not all
PDF viewers support transparent images. PDF only supports transparent
images in a jpeg2000 file, which is an odd/poorly supported format.

> Since there were only a few transparent bitmaps in the document, I just made the PNGs into non-transparent bitmaps instead (filled the "background" with a colour to match the PageStream page's background.
>
> Still, would be nice to figure out how to use transparent PNGs in PageStream generated PDFs.
>
> - Brent
>
>
>
> --
> Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
> Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
> PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

PageStream has been (almost) stellar in getting my children's book done. It can print out a nice PDF using the original 600dpi resolution images I've authored the document with.

But I also want to create a "lo-res" pdf for distribution through e-mail to friends. So I needed to generate a PDF where the bitmaps are reduced to 200dpi.

Within PageStream's PDF "save as PDF" window, under the "compression tab" you get this window:

http://s16.postimage.org/8bdfcbaol/resizeto.png

I think the "resize to" setting is obvious...that's the target resolution for your bitmaps (right?). So I set this to 200dpi. But what does the "maximum dpi" setting do? Can't figure that one out. There is no documentation on line or off line regarding that setting.

In the end, something is wrong. My PDFs are generated with bitmaps that look like they are about 72dpi (or less). Really bad. I have tried all sorts of numbers in the two slots, with no change.

I think this function might be broken. There was a bug report that mentions someone was having a problem with the feature:

http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=315

Deron mentions in that bug report it is "fixed in 5.0.9.5". But where do I get this version? I'm using 5.0.8.5 for Windows.

Can any shed any light on any of the above? Thanks,

- Brent Santin

> Deron mentions in that bug report it is "fixed in 5.0.9.5". But where do I get this version? I'm using 5.0.8.5 for Windows.

Correction to typo above.

I am using 5.0.5.8, Deron says the bug is fixed in 5.0.5.9. Where can I find this version?

- Brent

Hi Brent,

I don't use those dpi settings for PDF's.
I simply use JPEG2000 at 5%.
Then I open the PDF in Acrobat (Adobe), then save it again with the
option Save as and use the option (Adobe PDF-Files-) Optimized.
This shrinks the size of the PDF without losing too much detail in the
bitmaps.

And PGS 5.0.5.9 is the next PGS version, and an internal PGS version at
Deron desk (computers), and called an internal number. And is not
available, yet!
And if, it could get another PGS number, like 5.0.6.0.

Theo - just wish...

Op 9-7-2012 4:08, Brent schreef:
> PageStream has been (almost) stellar in getting my children's book done. It can print out a nice PDF using the original 600dpi resolution images I've authored the document with.
>
> But I also want to create a "lo-res" pdf for distribution through e-mail to friends. So I needed to generate a PDF where the bitmaps are reduced to 200dpi.
>
> Within PageStream's PDF "save as PDF" window, under the "compression tab" you get this window:
>
>http://s16.postimage.org/8bdfcbaol/resizeto.png
>
> I think the "resize to" setting is obvious...that's the target resolution for your bitmaps (right?). So I set this to 200dpi. But what does the "maximum dpi" setting do? Can't figure that one out. There is no documentation on line or off line regarding that setting.
>
> In the end, something is wrong. My PDFs are generated with bitmaps that look like they are about 72dpi (or less). Really bad. I have tried all sorts of numbers in the two slots, with no change.
>
> I think this function might be broken. There was a bug report that mentions someone was having a problem with the feature:
>
>http://www.pagestream.org/?action=Bug%20Tracker&id=315
>
> Deron mentions in that bug report it is "fixed in 5.0.9.5". But where do I get this version? I'm using 5.0.8.5 for Windows.
>
> Can any shed any light on any of the above? Thanks,
>
> - Brent Santin

--
PageStream Pro 5.0.5.8 on Windows 7 Pro 64 bits (Dutch), Python 2.7.2 and PySide 1.1.0
AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 215 Processor at 2.70 GHz and 4 GB RAM

--- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Theo Zweers <tjzwrs@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Brent,
>
> I don't use those dpi settings for PDF's.
> I simply use JPEG2000 at 5%.
> Then I open the PDF in Acrobat (Adobe), then save it again with the
> option Save as and use the option (Adobe PDF-Files-) Optimized.
> This shrinks the size of the PDF without losing too much detail in the
> bitmaps.

My concern with that is you seem to be merely using extreme JPEG compression on the original hi-res bitmaps in order to get the file size down. This will not be as good quality as resampling to a lower resolution (i.e. 300dpi from 600dpi original resolution bitmaps) and then using a less severe JPEG compression method. But the file size will be the same.

Anyway, in the end I ran the hi-res PDF through the open source PDFCreator software. It allows one to define both resampling and JPEG compression values, so you can get a good compromise.

You lose chapter marks when you do this though.

It would be nice if the feature within PageStream for resizing bitmaps just worked. It would be more straighforward.

Thanks,

Brent

I may have run my book through acrobat. Now that I think about it, I believe I did. Can't really remember what it got me, though. Acrobat has the advantage that you don't lose chapter marks, etc., but obviously it would be preferrable for PgS to handle it on its own.

Tim Doty

On Jul 09, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Brent <woodenflutes@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> --- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Theo Zweers <tjzwrs@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Brent,
> >
> > I don't use those dpi settings for PDF's.
> > I simply use JPEG2000 at 5%.
> > Then I open the PDF in Acrobat (Adobe), then save it again with the
> > option Save as and use the option (Adobe PDF-Files-) Optimized.
> > This shrinks the size of the PDF without losing too much detail in the
> > bitmaps.
>
> My concern with that is you seem to be merely using extreme JPEG compression on the original hi-res bitmaps in order to get the file size down. This will not be as good quality as resampling to a lower resolution (i.e. 300dpi from 600dpi original resolution bitmaps) and then using a less severe JPEG compression method. But the file size will be the same.
>
> Anyway, in the end I ran the hi-res PDF through the open source PDFCreator software. It allows one to define both resampling and JPEG compression values, so you can get a good compromise.
>
> You lose chapter marks when you do this though.
>
> It would be nice if the feature within PageStream for resizing bitmaps just worked. It would be more straighforward.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brent
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mmm, extreme JPEG compression. Yes, if you use JPEG.
But, try JPEG2000. You might be surprised! JPEG2000 doesn't use the 8
bit compression like JPEG, so not the obviously blocking looking pictures.
The only problem with JPEG2000, it is not widely used. So other programs
like PDFCreator maybe can't handle this JPEG2000.

And all this could be working in PGS 5.0.5.9. And I hope it does.

Theo

Op 9-7-2012 19:47, Brent schreef:
> --- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Theo Zweers <tjzwrs@...> wrote:
>> Hi Brent,
>>
>> I don't use those dpi settings for PDF's.
>> I simply use JPEG2000 at 5%.
>> Then I open the PDF in Acrobat (Adobe), then save it again with the
>> option Save as and use the option (Adobe PDF-Files-) Optimized.
>> This shrinks the size of the PDF without losing too much detail in the
>> bitmaps.
> My concern with that is you seem to be merely using extreme JPEG compression on the original hi-res bitmaps in order to get the file size down. This will not be as good quality as resampling to a lower resolution (i.e. 300dpi from 600dpi original resolution bitmaps) and then using a less severe JPEG compression method. But the file size will be the same.
>
> Anyway, in the end I ran the hi-res PDF through the open source PDFCreator software. It allows one to define both resampling and JPEG compression values, so you can get a good compromise.
>
> You lose chapter marks when you do this though.
>
> It would be nice if the feature within PageStream for resizing bitmaps just worked. It would be more straighforward.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brent
>
--
PageStream Pro 5.0.5.8 on Windows 7 Pro 64 bits (Dutch), Python 2.7.2 and PySide 1.1.0
AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 215 Processor at 2.70 GHz and 4 GB RAM

I'm curious why you feel you need such high resolution images. Do you know any specification about the target print-device? Rule of thumb is that you require double the image resolution of the line-screen that the book will be printed at. So for example at an output 100-line screen then 200 dpi is ample image resolution. Perhaps your output will be continuous tone rather than line-screen output?

Also, you need to be aware that jpeg is a "lossy" image format, so you should avoid jpeg for any quality page production. Some print devices (such as Imagesetter) will even fail with jpeg image content, but perhaps those are all now obsolete from my pre-press days. Just estimating here, but a 200dpi TIF would be better than a 400 dpi jpeg. Whatever the actual figures, jpeg discards image content, and the degradation becomes even greater every time you load, edit and re-save the image in jpeg format.

Re. embedding fonts: in the requester that appears from the menu item "Save as PDF" there is a "Fonts" tab where you can select the font embedding options.

Another way to achieve this is to output as postscript and then distill the postscript code into a pdf. This option also requires software capable of distilling the postscript code. On the Mac you can do this with Preview. This approach can be useful to achieve features that Pagestream may not have available in it's save-as-pdf option, but you also may need a suitable ppd (postscript printer definition) file. You can edit the ppd file to achieve certain results, such as which fonts are resident. Be sure to save such a custom file under a new name. This is an option probably best left to advance users.

--- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, "Brent" <woodenflutes@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm almost done my children's book. It's very graphics intensive, with 26 very high resolution full page illustrations (600 dpi 8.5" by 11" images at about 96MB each) and many other smaller high resolution images as well. ...

>
> Lulu.com also insists that all fonts be embedded in the PDF document. Can PageStream do this? I didn't see an option for this.
>
> Thanks,
> Brent
>

This issue is sort of moot, since I've subsequently figured out most of the questions I'd originally posted, but I'll respond.

--- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, "saskwatch" <ejunrau@...> wrote:
>
> I'm curious why you feel you need such high resolution images. Do
> you know any specification about the target print-device?

It's going to Lulu.com, and online printing / bookbinding service. I've used 300dpi images before at printing bureaus, and they are satisfactory. However, since I was able to work in 600 dpi and my computer could handle it easily I went with that. The thought being that I can always down-sample everything to 300dpi if I ever wish to. This is in following the rule of always work in the highest quality resolution available, etc.

> Also, you need to be aware that jpeg is a "lossy" image format, so you should avoid jpeg for any quality page production.

Yes, I am aware of this. I usually send non-lossy formats to printing bureaus. However, Lulu.com will only accept PDFs and this document, when rendered to a PDF with non-lossy compression is 2.5GB in size. Lulu.com's maximum file size allowance is 400MB. Applying JPEG compression to the bitmaps at 85% quality (weak compression) results in a pdf that looks great and is only 200MB in size. Even zooming in on fine details I cannot see any JPEG artifacting.

> Just estimating here, but a 200dpi TIF would be better than a 400
> dpi jpeg. Whatever the actual figures, jpeg discards image content

That wouldn't work here, as the images I'm working with are highly detailed - and the details are critical to the story (it's a hunt and find book like Where's Waldo). At 200 dpi the pixelation (even in a TIFF) starts to become visibly noticeable in these fine details - loss of resolution. In my case - after running some tests - a 600dpi image saved in JPEG format still retained the detail necessary whereas a lower resolution TIFF of comparable file size did not. Yes, JPEG compression can introduce blocky artifacts and fringing, but at the weak level of compression I'm using it's not visible to my eye, even after zooming in and scrutinizing the pictures carefully.

As for generational loss in JPEGs, yes I know about that. I never re-edit or manipulate JPEGs, nor do I use them in my original PageStream document. All the bitmaps used in my PageStream document are TIFFs or PNGs. Only at the final stage of rendering to PDF are they converted to JPEGs (and only exist as so within the PDF container).

So yes, normally I use uncompressed images, but in this case it was necessary to use JPEG compression.

- Brent

On 7/15/12 11:04 AM, Brent wrote:

> It's going to Lulu.com, and online printing / bookbinding service. I've used 300dpi images before at printing bureaus, and they are satisfactory. However, since I was able to work in 600 dpi and my computer could handle it easily I went with that. The thought being that I can always down-sample everything to 300dpi if I ever wish to. This is in following the rule of always work in the highest quality resolution available, etc.

I just had to comment, though my experience and information is all
pretty dated, so probably you've heard this before. I worked in
pre-press for a long time, but that's only relevant in the question of
actual print resolution, since I never worked in digital pre-press and
haven't had jobs printed commercially from DTP output.

The reason 300dpi makes sense is that most higher-quality commercial
printing would use 150 line screen for tones and images, though most of
the jobs I worked on used 133 line screen. Rule-of thumb is double the
LPI to determine reasonable DPI. Higher dot count can be a disaster,
since small dots will be more difficult to actually print on a
traditional printing press. I guess this is somewhat useless information
with services like Lulu since I suppose the 'presses' are actually more
similar to the inkjet process for on-demand printing. But even though
they can 'handle' a higher-res, it's worth wondering what their
pre-press process does with it. I understand your notion of working
higher-res when possible, but the application is delivery not archival.
I was taught that when reducing resolution, in Photoshop for instance,
that unsharp mask would be necessary after the resizing because reducing
the image will cause it to look softer. So it's conceivable that sending
600dpi images would actually look softer in the final product than
sending 300dpi images you had scaled yourself and tweaked. It's also
worth considering that your on-screen inspection may not give you the
information you need to predict the printed result. But the more
immediate concern is that I think 600dpi would be about four times the
data of 300dpi (doubled in two directions), so you'd already cut the
data load by 75% by using 300dpi. I was surprised to see Lulu has a max
filesize at all, because that seems to place a severe limitation on
high-quality books with very many pages.

I'd be nervous about a big order with this workflow, preferring to have
some testing of image quality first. In the olden days, clients wanted
hard proofs and sometimes even press proofs before committing to a run,
though some of those proofing processes seemed to be false security
since there were still variables hard to control in actual production.

I'll be interested to hear how your book comes out, as I've considered
some of these on-demand services myself.

Richard Mattsson

Hi Richard,

Well, I will order only one copy as a "proof". I fully expect there will be issues, as this is my first time trying this process.

I'll let you know how it works out via this mailing list.

- Brent

--- In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mattsson <r.mattsson@...> wrote:
>
> On 7/15/12 11:04 AM, Brent wrote:
>
> > It's going to Lulu.com, and online printing / bookbinding service. I've used 300dpi images before at printing bureaus, and they are satisfactory. However, since I was able to work in 600 dpi and my computer could handle it easily I went with that. The thought being that I can always down-sample everything to 300dpi if I ever wish to. This is in following the rule of always work in the highest quality resolution available, etc.
>
> I just had to comment, though my experience and information is all
> pretty dated, so probably you've heard this before. I worked in
> pre-press for a long time, but that's only relevant in the question of
> actual print resolution, since I never worked in digital pre-press and
> haven't had jobs printed commercially from DTP output.
>
> The reason 300dpi makes sense is that most higher-quality commercial
> printing would use 150 line screen for tones and images, though most of
> the jobs I worked on used 133 line screen. Rule-of thumb is double the
> LPI to determine reasonable DPI. Higher dot count can be a disaster,
> since small dots will be more difficult to actually print on a
> traditional printing press. I guess this is somewhat useless information
> with services like Lulu since I suppose the 'presses' are actually more
> similar to the inkjet process for on-demand printing. But even though
> they can 'handle' a higher-res, it's worth wondering what their
> pre-press process does with it. I understand your notion of working
> higher-res when possible, but the application is delivery not archival.
> I was taught that when reducing resolution, in Photoshop for instance,
> that unsharp mask would be necessary after the resizing because reducing
> the image will cause it to look softer. So it's conceivable that sending
> 600dpi images would actually look softer in the final product than
> sending 300dpi images you had scaled yourself and tweaked. It's also
> worth considering that your on-screen inspection may not give you the
> information you need to predict the printed result. But the more
> immediate concern is that I think 600dpi would be about four times the
> data of 300dpi (doubled in two directions), so you'd already cut the
> data load by 75% by using 300dpi. I was surprised to see Lulu has a max
> filesize at all, because that seems to place a severe limitation on
> high-quality books with very many pages.
>
> I'd be nervous about a big order with this workflow, preferring to have
> some testing of image quality first. In the olden days, clients wanted
> hard proofs and sometimes even press proofs before committing to a run,
> though some of those proofing processes seemed to be false security
> since there were still variables hard to control in actual production.
>
> I'll be interested to hear how your book comes out, as I've considered
> some of these on-demand services myself.
>
> Richard Mattsson
>

Hi folks,

Well, I finally got my childrens' book finished and "published" on Lulu.com. I was asked to report here on my experience with Lulu.com (a print-on-demand service), so here I am doing sos.

PageStream performed fantastically in putting the book together and the final PDF it generated was uploaded to Lulu.com and printed, bound and mailed to me.

I must say - the quality of the printing and binding that Lulu.com did was absolutely, absolutely FRIKKIN' FANTASTIC! The binding was professional, the cover plastic coated, the paper glossy and colours vivid (and not shifted). Text is razor sharp. It looks entirely like a professionally published book. I'm certain if I were to put it on a shelf in a bookstore beside a book that was industrially printed, no one would know the difference.

The cost was also VERY low, even if you only want a single copy. My 60 page book cost about $18US plus shipping for my 60 page book. Less for books with fewer pages or a non-colour interior. That's cheaper than it would have cost me to bring it to a local printing bureau and getting laser-printer print outs.

I consider myself very, very picky in this regard and I can find no fault. I was extremely impressed. I was so impressed, in fact, that I went back and used PageStream to lay-out two earlier children' books I had done and got them printed too.

Lulu.com also allows you to make the books available for sale. I've set up a Lulu.com store here:

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/woodenflutes

It was a heck of a lot of work, but it was fun and nice to have such professional looking final results.

Programs used:

- PageStream on Windows XP
- ImageFX on Amiga under WinUAE
- Adobe Photoshop 4.0 (old) under Windows XP

Thanks PageStream!

- Brent