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2015-01-29 13:56:36 CT #1
Gord Clink
From: Canada
Registered: 2006-10-27
Posts: 26
I think we should remember that when you pay for a product, you are not paying for future development but development that has already taken place in the version you own. :-)

Gord Clink


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "Neil neil@pearson.1to1.org [PageStreamSupport]"
Date:01-28-2015 7:37 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: "woodenflutes@yahoo.ca [PageStreamSupport]"
Cc: Neil Pearson
Subject: [PageStreamSupport] Re: PageStream Upgrade: What do you want/need?

 

Hello woodenflutes@yahoo.ca,

I'd agree that all those bug-fixes need being fixed, but it's all very well us saying this and
that needs fixing, but where is Deron during all this 'chatter', as he is the one that needs to
agree he has 'dropped the ball' on his own project, and let many of us down badly.

I paid for the Amiga version for a v5.x.x.x to be created, and even though, supposedly as a
stop-gap Deron gave me a licence for the PC version, which I have used, I was still hoping for
an Amiga version to materialise that actually functions, and doesn't keep crashing.

It is no good Deron saying he will create an OS4 version, and a new Amiga and MorphOS version,
but the ones he wrote just don't work, and even the PC version has it's own issues, as have
already been mentioned.

I was interested in a Mac OSX version, but the one he wrote is only useable on an Intel CPU'd
Mac system, so having a G4 system that version is of no use to me either.

I'd also like to see the documentation for the program made available again, as a PDF, so that
the whole manual could be printed out as required, with a contents, and index, etc. but the v4
PDF of the Pagestream documentation is not even on the Pagestream site anymore, so that
too needs to be updated, and made available on the website.

I hope we get some response from Deron, as that is where these messages need to reach and
resonate, so that this program does not get lost in the mists of time.

Possibly, if Deron has lost his desire to continue its development, then he should consider
selling it off to someone/company to continue to develop it, as ImageFX and Aladdin4D have been,
&/or possibly get paid to contribute to its future. Or if Deron is still committed to its future
then he should get that under control while still the owner of the program and develop it so that
we can all use it, and be as proud to use it as before - when it used to work as it should, which
was basically back at version 4, I sadly have to say.

I use the PDF filter that was part of v4 a lot, but find the v5 PDF is generally unstable,
though it is supposed to interpret/import newer versions of PDF I'd like to see all the
stability issues resolved. Keeping the program available for all the platform/OS's he does was
always going to be frought with latent issues/bugs, and I was always surprised to see Deron take
on so many of the main OS's of the day, and not get too concerned that he was 'biting off more
than he could chew', IMHO.

Anyway, I hope new or fixed issues of Pagestream do materialise, as I really get a lot of use
out of the program (v4 Pro), and I'd like to see a return on the money I invested in supporting
the future of the program, for the platform I paid towards its continued development of.

Neil

On 26/01/2015, you wrote:
> Here's what I would like:

> Bug fixes for WIndows 5.0.5.8 (or whatever the latest version is for that platform):

> - PNG transparency bug fix.
> - BME editor in Windows bug fix (BME starts with error, won't run - discussed in this forum)
> - Bug fix when requesting that bitmaps be resized upon (PDF?) export (Pagestream does not
> resize the images at all even though a resize resolution has been specified). - Bug fix for
> replacing/substituting images function - when an image has been cropped within PageStream the
> replacement image does not size to frame properly.
> New features:

> - SVG import / export.

> Brent
Regards
2019-07-27 08:29:09 CT #2
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 Hi Gord,

It's been a while since I read your post, and frankly I felt it was an unfair and incorrect remark on your part, as far as it concerned me.

I should also add that I have never been so disillusioned with PageStream over the last 9 years (approx) that I felt there's not much point in replying to someone who doesn't grasp the situation correctly, that's you, and to this group as nothing is going to get done to fix or update PageStream back to where it should be right now - a premier program for DeskTop Publishing.

I said you didn't grasp the situation correctly because, when anyone buys a product it should be "fit for purpose, and of merchantable quality" - PageStream v5 of whatever version release you care to mention is not, sadly. So I've not been able to use the program from the date I bought the program for my OS4.0 system or OS4.1 or for my Amiga 68k system - That was TWO purchases. So, as with many other users expecting it to improve release after release to resolve the issues, its development just disappeared without trace, as have many of the avid Amiga fans who really relied and enthused about PageStream - me being one of those such users.

However, sending messages to this group, to get a user based reply, is frankly hit and miss - usually a miss as Deron often doesn't let them through, if I say something that he doesn't want to hear - the truth about lack of development on PageStream, and so my effort is making a reply is lost in the 'ether' - so you, and others don't even hear what you should really hear about the current situation by an avid fan of PageStream.

I bought PageStream v5.x.x.x for my Amiga 68k system, but found that it didn't work, basically at all, the GUI might load up, but then it might not, or it might just crash out completely. I never got any further with the OS4 release, and even though I was interested, in seeing the program become stable I bought the update for OS4, which I later ttransferred to a Windows PgS v5 as that did at least load up, as a stop-gap to seeing further improvements to PgS for the Amiga-type systems. At the time I didn't own a MorphOS system, but I do now and still am a registered user of MorphOS, but there is still no stable working release of PageStream for me to consider buying. I have asked Deron about that, but I've not had any reply from him on the subject, as yet, and I've been witing for a reply for months now, so it's not likely to happen - is it?

This more recent news that he has moved back to the State he has his 'roots' in has, it seems, spurred him onto considering plunging back into development for PageStream - which would be GREAT NEWS.

Though whether that would include the MorphOS version or the Amiga platform in general I don't know. 

However, I do know that Frank Mariak, from the MorphOS Development Team, did some low-level improvements to the MorphOS v5.x.x.x release that allowed it to actually run stably, but that no further development since then has been attempted by him or maybe been allowed by Deron - I do not know, as it's like 'trying to get blood out of a rock'. I know MorphOS users saw it running, and it looked good, and ran well and was stable. However, I know Deron is not familiar with MUI, but there are lots of MorphOS developers who would assist him to get a stable release in that regard if only he'd ask them.

There is a lot more potential for PageStream on the Amiga/MorphOS hardware than has been considered, but I too would have to be realistic about its current user base, as so many users have become disillusioned often caused by the inactivity of developers for those OSs to keep their software relevant for the hardware and OS it is proven to work well on.

The fact that the PgS4 PDF file was removed from the PageStream site, probably because it was only a W.I.P. when it was made available, was a bad move, and the fact that no printable documentation/manual for PageStream 5 was ever released was also a bad move.

It's OK for some issues to have online docs but all too often the fact that you can lay out in front of you a printed manual makes it far more direct than searching through webpage after webpage to reveal what you need to know to solve a dilemma to construct a document to the style you want.

I'd like to hope that this message gets through, via Deron, as it would go a long way to making me believe that PageStream has a future with the Amiga OS's.

There is no current Atari development, and there is not likely to be either, which is where PagStream started off, as Publishing Partner ST, but there is in the Amiga/MorphOS computing sector, so there is still a market to return to.

However, trying to break-back into Windows or Macintosh or even Linux would be a tall order, seeing as there is such a plethora of users using a wider variety of such software that they are already familiar with, and runs stably. So, why would they want to pay for software that currently would be probably unstable, and they would have no way of knowing if the project would materialise to a mature stable release eventually - which is the current situation with PageStream, I am sad to say.

I hope this message spurs Deron onto new progress with PageStream I really do as I am sad that v5 never materialised for the Amiga, but there is still a future that can be realised, and honoured.

bye for now,

Neil

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <gord@...> wrote :

I think we should remember that when you pay for a product, you are not paying for future development but development that has already taken place in the version you own. :-)

Gord Clink
2019-07-27 20:18:11 CT #3
Gord Clink
From: Canada
Registered: 2006-10-27
Posts: 26

Wow, It's been so long, I don't even remember making that remark.


I hear what you are saying, but I think the problem is that the Amiga is just a nostalgic system now. Even with new products like Vampire Accelerator etc. There will never be the following or the customer base it once had. Even the fastest Amiga is thousands of times slower then the current PC's. This makes it very difficult for anyone like Deron to spend very much time on products, as the payback is small. Don't get me wrong... I love my Amiga and enjoy coding on it, but I also have my day job which is working with PC's which bring in my income for my family. I'm sure Amiga developers are in the same boat. They can no longer take the Amiga seriously.


The Amiga was once so far ahead of all the other systems, that it caught the attention of people like you and I in the first place. But now its just an outdated piece of hardware that will not attract new users.


I will always play with my amiga, and even use Pagestream for what it is, but I don't blame anyone for now spending their time developing an old product for no return on their investment.


I think the Amiga could have had a chance if it would have went OpenSource back in 1994 immediately after commodore went bankrupt. It could really have been something now, but unfortunately it was just squandered and fought over which didn't do anyone any good. 


That's my two cents. I know its hard to read but its the reality unfortunately.


Gord

From: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com <PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of am1gaman@yahoo.co.uk [PageStreamSupport] <PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 3:29:09 AM
To: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PageStreamSupport] Re: PageStream Upgrade: What do you want/need?
 
 

Hi Gord,


It's been a while since I read your post, and frankly I felt it was an unfair and incorrect remark on your part, as far as it concerned me.

I should also add that I have never been so disillusioned with PageStream over the last 9 years (approx) that I felt there's not much point in replying to someone who doesn't grasp the situation correctly, that's you, and to this group as nothing is going to get done to fix or update PageStream back to where it should be right now - a premier program for DeskTop Publishing.

I said you didn't grasp the situation correctly because, when anyone buys a product it should be "fit for purpose, and of merchantable quality" - PageStream v5 of whatever version release you care to mention is not, sadly. So I've not been able to use the program from the date I bought the program for my OS4.0 system or OS4.1 or for my Amiga 68k system - That was TWO purchases. So, as with many other users expecting it to improve release after release to resolve the issues, its development just disappeared without trace, as have many of the avid Amiga fans who really relied and enthused about PageStream - me being one of those such users.

However, sending messages to this group, to get a user based reply, is frankly hit and miss - usually a miss as Deron often doesn't let them through, if I say something that he doesn't want to hear - the truth about lack of development on PageStream, and so my effort is making a reply is lost in the 'ether' - so you, and others don't even hear what you should really hear about the current situation by an avid fan of PageStream.

I bought PageStream v5.x.x.x for my Amiga 68k system, but found that it didn't work, basically at all, the GUI might load up, but then it might not, or it might just crash out completely. I never got any further with the OS4 release, and even though I was interested, in seeing the program become stable I bought the update for OS4, which I later ttransferred to a Windows PgS v5 as that did at least load up, as a stop-gap to seeing further improvements to PgS for the Amiga-type systems. At the time I didn't own a MorphOS system, but I do now and still am a registered user of MorphOS, but there is still no stable working release of PageStream for me to consider buying. I have asked Deron about that, but I've not had any reply from him on the subject, as yet, and I've been witing for a reply for months now, so it's not likely to happen - is it?

This more recent news that he has moved back to the State he has his 'roots' in has, it seems, spurred him onto considering plunging back into development for PageStream - which would be GREAT NEWS.

Though whether that would include the MorphOS version or the Amiga platform in general I don't know. 

However, I do know that Frank Mariak, from the MorphOS Development Team, did some low-level improvements to the MorphOS v5.x.x.x release that allowed it to actually run stably, but that no further development since then has been attempted by him or maybe been allowed by Deron - I do not know, as it's like 'trying to get blood out of a rock'. I know MorphOS users saw it running, and it looked good, and ran well and was stable. However, I know Deron is not familiar with MUI, but there are lots of MorphOS developers who would assist him to get a stable release in that regard if only he'd ask them.

There is a lot more potential for PageStream on the Amiga/MorphOS hardware than has been considered, but I too would have to be realistic about its current user base, as so many users have become disillusioned often caused by the inactivity of developers for those OSs to keep their software relevant for the hardware and OS it is proven to work well on.

The fact that the PgS4 PDF file was removed from the PageStream site, probably because it was only a W.I.P. when it was made available, was a bad move, and the fact that no printable documentation/manual for PageStream 5 was ever released was also a bad move.

It's OK for some issues to have online docs but all too often the fact that you can lay out in front of you a printed manual makes it far more direct than searching through webpage after webpage to reveal what you need to know to solve a dilemma to construct a document to the style you want.

I'd like to hope that this message gets through, via Deron, as it would go a long way to making me believe that PageStream has a future with the Amiga OS's.

There is no current Atari development, and there is not likely to be either, which is where PagStream started off, as Publishing Partner ST, but there is in the Amiga/MorphOS computing sector, so there is still a market to return to.

However, trying to break-back into Windows or Macintosh or even Linux would be a tall order, seeing as there is such a plethora of users using a wider variety of such software that they are already familiar with, and runs stably. So, why would they want to pay for software that currently would be probably unstable, and they would have no way of knowing if the project would materialise to a mature stable release eventually - which is the current situation with PageStream, I am sad to say.

I hope this message spurs Deron onto new progress with PageStream I really do as I am sad that v5 never materialised for the Amiga, but there is still a future that can be realised, and honoured.

bye for now,

Neil

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <gord@....> wrote :

I think we should remember that when you pay for a product, you are not paying for future development but development that has already taken place in the version you own. :-)

Gord Clink
2019-07-27 21:18:25 CT #4
Lawrence F. Keller
From: United States
Registered: 2006-02-15
Posts: 65

Gord:

I agree with you. I loved the Amiga and it could have been the standard had Commodore be more strategic. But it is impossible to revive and Deron went beyond duty programming PageStream as the Amiga faded. I enjoyed being President of our Amiga User Group which had 400 members at the time. Now it is purely nostalgic memories of a true community which no other platform created. Still consider myself Amigan, in fact, it is part of my E-Mail signature, but that honors the past not the present or future.

On 27-Jul-19 4:18 PM, Gord Clink gord@apatco.com [PageStreamSupport] wrote:
 

Wow, It's been so long, I don't even remember making that remark.


I hear what you are saying, but I think the problem is that the Amiga is just a nostalgic system now. Even with new products like Vampire Accelerator etc. There will never be the following or the customer base it once had. Even the fastest Amiga is thousands of times slower then the current PC's. This makes it very difficult for anyone like Deron to spend very much time on products, as the payback is small. Don't get me wrong... I love my Amiga and enjoy coding on it, but I also have my day job which is working with PC's which bring in my income for my family. I'm sure Amiga developers are in the same boat. They can no longer take the Amiga seriously.


The Amiga was once so far ahead of all the other systems, that it caught the attention of people like you and I in the first place. But now its just an outdated piece of hardware that will not attract new users.


I will always play with my amiga, and even use Pagestream for what it is, but I don't blame anyone for now spending their time developing an old product for no return on their investment.


I think the Amiga could have had a chance if it would have went OpenSource back in 1994 immediately after commodore went bankrupt. It could really have been something now, but unfortunately it was just squandered and fought over which didn't do anyone any good. 


That's my two cents. I know its hard to read but its the reality unfortunately.


Gord

From: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com <PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of am1gaman@yahoo.co.uk [PageStreamSupport] <PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 3:29:09 AM
To: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PageStreamSupport] Re: PageStream Upgrade: What do you want/need?
 
 

Hi Gord,


It's been a while since I read your post, and frankly I felt it was an unfair and incorrect remark on your part, as far as it concerned me.

I should also add that I have never been so disillusioned with PageStream over the last 9 years (approx) that I felt there's not much point in replying to someone who doesn't grasp the situation correctly, that's you, and to this group as nothing is going to get done to fix or update PageStream back to where it should be right now - a premier program for DeskTop Publishing.

I said you didn't grasp the situation correctly because, when anyone buys a product it should be "fit for purpose, and of merchantable quality" - PageStream v5 of whatever version release you care to mention is not, sadly. So I've not been able to use the program from the date I bought the program for my OS4.0 system or OS4.1 or for my Amiga 68k system - That was TWO purchases. So, as with many other users expecting it to improve release after release to resolve the issues, its development just disappeared without trace, as have many of the avid Amiga fans who really relied and enthused about PageStream - me being one of those such users.

However, sending messages to this group, to get a user based reply, is frankly hit and miss - usually a miss as Deron often doesn't let them through, if I say something that he doesn't want to hear - the truth about lack of development on PageStream, and so my effort is making a reply is lost in the 'ether' - so you, and others don't even hear what you should really hear about the current situation by an avid fan of PageStream.

I bought PageStream v5.x.x.x for my Amiga 68k system, but found that it didn't work, basically at all, the GUI might load up, but then it might not, or it might just crash out completely. I never got any further with the OS4 release, and even though I was interested, in seeing the program become stable I bought the update for OS4, which I later ttransferred to a Windows PgS v5 as that did at least load up, as a stop-gap to seeing further improvements to PgS for the Amiga-type systems. At the time I didn't own a MorphOS system, but I do now and still am a registered user of MorphOS, but there is still no stable working release of PageStream for me to consider buying. I have asked Deron about that, but I've not had any reply from him on the subject, as yet, and I've been witing for a reply for months now, so it's not likely to happen - is it?

This more recent news that he has moved back to the State he has his 'roots' in has, it seems, spurred him onto considering plunging back into development for PageStream - which would be GREAT NEWS.

Though whether that would include the MorphOS version or the Amiga platform in general I don't know. 

However, I do know that Frank Mariak, from the MorphOS Development Team, did some low-level improvements to the MorphOS v5.x.x.x release that allowed it to actually run stably, but that no further development since then has been attempted by him or maybe been allowed by Deron - I do not know, as it's like 'trying to get blood out of a rock'. I know MorphOS users saw it running, and it looked good, and ran well and was stable. However, I know Deron is not familiar with MUI, but there are lots of MorphOS developers who would assist him to get a stable release in that regard if only he'd ask them.

There is a lot more potential for PageStream on the Amiga/MorphOS hardware than has been considered, but I too would have to be realistic about its current user base, as so many users have become disillusioned often caused by the inactivity of developers for those OSs to keep their software relevant for the hardware and OS it is proven to work well on.

The fact that the PgS4 PDF file was removed from the PageStream site, probably because it was only a W.I.P. when it was made available, was a bad move, and the fact that no printable documentation/manual for PageStream 5 was ever released was also a bad move.

It's OK for some issues to have online docs but all too often the fact that you can lay out in front of you a printed manual makes it far more direct than searching through webpage after webpage to reveal what you need to know to solve a dilemma to construct a document to the style you want.

I'd like to hope that this message gets through, via Deron, as it would go a long way to making me believe that PageStream has a future with the Amiga OS's.

There is no current Atari development, and there is not likely to be either, which is where PagStream started off, as Publishing Partner ST, but there is in the Amiga/MorphOS computing sector, so there is still a market to return to.

However, trying to break-back into Windows or Macintosh or even Linux would be a tall order, seeing as there is such a plethora of users using a wider variety of such software that they are already familiar with, and runs stably. So, why would they want to pay for software that currently would be probably unstable, and they would have no way of knowing if the project would materialise to a mature stable release eventually - which is the current situation with PageStream, I am sad to say.

I hope this message spurs Deron onto new progress with PageStream I really do as I am sad that v5 never materialised for the Amiga, but there is still a future that can be realised, and honoured.

bye for now,

Neil

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <gord@....> wrote :

I think we should remember that when you pay for a product, you are not paying for future development but development that has already taken place in the version you own. :-)

Gord Clink

-- 
Dr. Larry Keller
Ohio Amigan
lkeller100@cox.net
2019-07-27 21:20:50 CT #5
Ingo Heinicke
From: Germany
Registered: 2006-12-24
Posts: 154

Hi Neil,

I'm just reading passively whenever something is written on this group
as my days of PageStream are unfortunately over.

I first bought PageStream around version 2.x on the Amiga after having
tried a copy I got hold of. Later I bought it another time in German
from Hage & Partner (when I recall it right). When my A4000 time was
over I moved to Windows 95 and sidegraded PageStream for that platform.
After having moved to my MacBook Pro I sidegraded to macOS.

On all these platforms I was able to produce stuff for my private use.
Not every version was improving but I was able to us it more or less.

When macOS Sierra appeared PageStream refused to work. I could load it
but not much more. This persisted until now.

I then bought InDesign CS4 but that doesn't work anymore since macOS
High Sierra or so.

I then bought QuarkXPress s there were ways to convert at least my most
important docs from ID.

Now I bought Affinity Publisher for under $50 and it feels like
PageStream did back in the days. Affordable, cool GUI.

I was a big fan of MorphOS, too, on my A4000 with CyberGFX and
CyperStorm PPC. Waiting for a MorphOS release of PS seems not very
promising when the major platforms don't work.

In my opinion the times of PageStream are over. I would pay for a PGS2ID
or Quark converter to rescue my old documents but that's it.

Best Regards from Germany,

Ingo
2019-07-28 08:58:31 CT #6
Deron Kazmaier
From: United States
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 4639

On 7/27/19 2:20 PM, Ingo Heinicke I.Heinicke@skyynet.de
[PageStreamSupport] wrote:
> When macOS Sierra appeared PageStream refused to work. I could load it
> but not much more. This persisted until now.

Through the last OSX upgrades, I've kept PageStream functional on those
platforms. I've just never been able to put together the documentation
that goes with an upgrade, so I've never released it publicly. If
someone contacted me with a problem, I gave them the link.

So for all you Mac owners who just sighed and moved on, here is the link
to the latest PageStream5 for Mac. Demo, Full, or Pro same binary.

http://pagestream.org/PageStream5.0.6.4.dmg


Deron


> Best Regards from Germany,
>
> Ingo
>

--
Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows
2019-07-28 22:34:42 CT #7
Ingo Heinicke
From: Germany
Registered: 2006-12-24
Posts: 154

Hello Deron,

Good to read you're still alive and maintaining the code to keep it
running. It would be good to provide the updated versions on your
homepage for those looking for it.

I just downloaded PGS from your link and at first sight it works loading
and printing docs. Even copy & paste work which was an issue the last
time I tried to use PGS when it still worked.

Thanks,

Ingo

> So for all you Mac owners who just sighed and moved on, here is the link
> to the latest PageStream5 for Mac. Demo, Full, or Pro same binary.
>
>http://pagestream.org/PageStream5.0.6.4.dmg
2019-07-29 07:44:33 CT #8
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 I agree with Ingo - this update(s) should be on the PageStream website, though there should be re-worked, actual working versions - for the Operating Systems you said you were creating them for - on there as well.

Neil

P.S. is the Mac version Intel only or is there a PPC version as well, that will work with Tiger or Leopard?

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <I.Heinicke@...> wrote :

Hello Deron,

Good to read you're still alive and maintaining the code to keep it
running. It would be good to provide the updated versions on your
homepage for those looking for it.

I just downloaded PGS from your link and at first sight it works loading
and printing docs. Even copy & paste work which was an issue the last
time I tried to use PGS when it still worked.

Thanks,

Ingo

> So for all you Mac owners who just sighed and moved on, here is the link
> to the latest PageStream5 for Mac. Demo, Full, or Pro same binary.
>
> http://pagestream.org/PageStream5.0.6.4.dmg
2019-07-29 07:50:44 CT #9
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 Hi Deron,

I do own a few Mac systems now, which I didn't when I paid for the Amiga system, but I'd need to know the system requirements for current versions - as long as they actually work stably, before I aks for more details about transfer, upgrading, buying any new version of PageStream, as it needs to function correctly, which no version 5 of PageStream did for me, unlike v4 which was very stable to use.

I have 2 x Mac Mini x86 (Core2Duo) systems Snow Leopard 10.6.x with Intel built-in graphics,s o if this current PageStream would work on that I might be interested in it.

I've also got a fe MacMini G4, PowerBook G4, and PowerMac G5 systems, so if a Mac OSX version of PageStream will work on those as well I might be interested.

I'd really like to believe you'd be reconsidering working on PageStream again to resolve the issues you left incomplete for v5 releases that never 'made the grade'.

Neil


---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <deron@...> wrote :

On 7/27/19 2:20 PM, Ingo Heinicke I.Heinicke@...
[PageStreamSupport] wrote:
> When macOS Sierra appeared PageStream refused to work. I could load it
> but not much more. This persisted until now.

Through the last OSX upgrades, I've kept PageStream functional on those
platforms. I've just never been able to put together the documentation
that goes with an upgrade, so I've never released it publicly. If
someone contacted me with a problem, I gave them the link.

So for all you Mac owners who just sighed and moved on, here is the link
to the latest PageStream5 for Mac. Demo, Full, or Pro same binary.

http://pagestream.org/PageStream5.0.6.4.dmg


Deron


> Best Regards from Germany,
>
> Ingo
>

--
Deron Kazmaier - support@...
Grasshopper LLC Publishing - http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows
2019-07-29 08:11:14 CT #10
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 Hi Ingo,

Thanks for your reply, it made for good reading.

The trouble with many of these highly commercial DTP pieces of software, i.e from Adobe, is that they move with the ever changing tide of CPU architecture, so software you like to use often becomes incompatible with later hardware, such as Mac OSX from PPC to Intel.

I have generally tried not to move with the tide to ensure that my system's software remains working, as my demands are not as high as many who might need to use commercial software to keep up with the ever changing high-street demands. So, I have been able to retain much of my 'ancient' hardware, like the PPC Mac hardware by migrating to MorphOS which is brilliant for me.

I can use Adobe CS3 software as a Mac system or use - preferably - my MorphOS system and PageStream as v4 which can still do much of what I need, even though it is missing some of v5 features, which, as you rightly point out, don't work with any of the PageStream v5 releases as the releases don't function correctly.

v5 for all the OSs I bought it for just don't work, which was, and still is, a major disappointment to me, and almost certainly to many, many other avid, loyal PageStream users.

I'd really like Deron to take the time to reconsider fixing the v5 releases, and completing the MorphOS release that I believe exists, that was 'tweaked' by Frank Mariak, to a useable release, but not sanctioned by Deron, if I understand the circumstances correctly.

If Deron would fix v5 releases to where we all hoped they would be when they were released, back in 2006, then many PageStream users might take up using it again, if they knew they could trust it to not just 'crash' or act in a 'flaky' way that you just cannot rely on.

Trying to create PageStream for 6 Operating Systems (Windows, Mac OSX, Linux, 68k, OS4 PPC, MorphOS) was always at the back of my mind as a programming minefield, as trying to master Little & Big endian issues in various programs, together with all the other vagaries of each program seemed just too much for any one person to contemplate, nevermind master, which ended up not being mastered - well not as yet. ;-)

Here's hoping. 8-)

Neil

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <I.Heinicke@...> wrote :

Hi Neil,

I'm just reading passively whenever something is written on this group
as my days of PageStream are unfortunately over.

I first bought PageStream around version 2.x on the Amiga after having
tried a copy I got hold of. Later I bought it another time in German
from Hage & Partner (when I recall it right). When my A4000 time was
over I moved to Windows 95 and sidegraded PageStream for that platform.
After having moved to my MacBook Pro I sidegraded to macOS.

On all these platforms I was able to produce stuff for my private use.
Not every version was improving but I was able to us it more or less.

When macOS Sierra appeared PageStream refused to work. I could load it
but not much more. This persisted until now.

I then bought InDesign CS4 but that doesn't work anymore since macOS
High Sierra or so.

I then bought QuarkXPress s there were ways to convert at least my most
important docs from ID.

Now I bought Affinity Publisher for under $50 and it feels like
PageStream did back in the days. Affordable, cool GUI.

I was a big fan of MorphOS, too, on my A4000 with CyberGFX and
CyperStorm PPC. Waiting for a MorphOS release of PS seems not very
promising when the major platforms don't work.

In my opinion the times of PageStream are over. I would pay for a PGS2ID
or Quark converter to rescue my old documents but that's it.

Best Regards from Germany,

Ingo
2019-07-29 07:41:41 CT #11
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
Neil,
First, I've asked you to identify yourself in your email. "Am1gaman" doesn't cut it. Also, this email was cut to make it look like Dr. Keller wrote it. I've corrected that by removing his signature from the end.

Why have I not let some of your emails through? Because you can't stick to the fact nor can you write what you have to say in less than a page. You make up facts to fit your narrative, and I don't have time to read your papers and write corrections. I'm going to let this one through, but you do more harm to your cause than good.

Deron

--------

Hi Dr. Larry, well doctor it's like this ..... and Gord I appreciate your reply as well,

I'm impressed that you still consider yourself to be an Amigan, and that you still have a mention of it in your email signature, but the Amiga, and its offshoots are still not dead, i.e. OS4.x, MorphOS v3.11 and Amiga OS 3.1.4.1 - only just been released which has fixed many of the issues that OS3.5 and OS3.9 even when updated still left unaddressed.

Many people, though probably not as many as in its hey-day, are still using an Amiga, and probably many, as in those notable era days are using it for playing games. However, there are plenty of people/users who use their systems for Office features that the Amiga users created over the years, such as Database software, Spreadsheets, Geneaology, Scanning, Image processing, browsing the Internet, and needless to say many still use PageStream.

One thing that both of you seem to be overlooking is that PageStream boasts on its website:

"PageStream is a creative and feature-rich desktop publishing/page layout program available for Windows,Macintosh OS X, Linux, and Amiga."

So, if these Operating Systems are shown as supported on the PageStream website, that calls into question why aren't the latest versions available, as working stable programs for all those OS's - including the Amiga?

There is no mention of "nostalgia" mentioned on the PageStream website as the reason for producing the Amiga versions, and if they had been completed in a timely manner - back in 2006, then this poor line of defence for Deron would not be relevant at all, in fact it isn't. The program was never produced to a satisfactory conclusion and that goes for all the versions I paid for/installed.

That's not to say I don't think they should now be dropped as the Amiga is not as 'vibrant' a community as it once was, as the program was supposed to be developed at that time, and failed to be, I paid for it then, and my money was good then, but the program wasn't, and I never got a refund, as the failure to create the program was not due to circumstances beyond Deron's control, AFAIK.

So, that's not just Windows, Linux, and Mac, but the Amiga, and back in 2006 I believe it was PageStream 5 was supposed to have been produced for all the Amiga variants, along with all the other platforms. None of those platforms that I used/paid for ended up with a single stable useable version. I am still using v4.1.5.6 Pro as a 68k program, under TRANCE emulation, that works with MorphOS quite well, but the feature set of v5 was what I wanted to be able to use, and is what I paid for - but have never been able to enjoy using.

If you, in this case Deron, as the developer, commited to produce a software product, and sell it to users who want that product then once you sell one copy of that variant, you have made a serious commitment to complete a working, stable, fully functional version of that variant, or you have obtained that money under false pretences.

That is what I am saying - I paid for something, and was rightfully expecting it to be completed, but yet I've ended up with some pieces of code that don't work as intended, and since 2010 only one the Mac versions shows any later release, as the downloads I have access to show.
 
Amiga 68k
PDF Document Import Filter  last updated 2004-07-05
PageStream 4.1.5.6 Pro last updated 2003-01-30
PageStream 5.0.5.8a last updated 2010-10-21
PageStream 5.0.5.8 last updated 2010-10-11
MS Word Text Import Filter last updated 2004-02-11
PageStream 4.1.5.6 last updated 2003-01-30
PageStream 4.0.9 last updated 2001-03-27
PageStream 3.4 beta last updated 1999-11-01

Amiga-OS4-PPC
PageStream 4.1.8.3 beta Pro last updated 2006-06-19
PageStream 4.1.8.3 beta last updated 2006-06-19

Windows
PageStream 5.0.5.8 Pro last updated 2010-10-11
PageStream 4.1.5.8 Pro last updated 2003-03-13
PageStream 5.0.5.8 last updated 2010-10-11
PageStream 4.1.5.8 last updated 2003-03-13

Demos
Linux-i64
PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo last updated 2010-10-11

Linux-PPC
PageStream 5.0.2.12 Demo last updated 2006-02-28

Linux-x86
PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo last updated 2010-10-11

Macintosh-OSX
PageStream 5.0.5.9 Demo last updated 2012-09-20
PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo last updated 2010-10-11

Windows
PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo last updated 2010-10-11

As you can probably see virtually all the releases end being updated around 2010, and only now, July 2019, not far off 10 years later, has Deron stated that there is a more recent demo/full/Pro release Mac OSX v5.0.6.4, that's also available!

However, I'd feel fairly confident that it won't be the PPC version, which is mainly the hardware I own. Though I do own a MacMini x86 (Core2Duo) and several PowerBooks, and PPC MacMinis, and a few PowerMac G5s, but as far as I know there has not been a v5 release for the PPC hardware either for Mac OSX or MorphOS, or at least I've never become aware of it, since I migrated to those Operating System(s).

By the way -  Gord - a MacMini G4 or PowerBook G4 or PowerMac G5 is not thousands of times slower than many current computer systems than run Windows, Linux or Mac OSX. There is a speed difference, but the speed and reactiveness of the MorphOS system often makes up - by far - for the inate CPU-clogging bloated-software that runs on Windows systems that slows many systems down, almost to a crawl, what with virus-checking, system memory protection, etc..

I use the PowerBooks, MacMinis (PPC) and PowerMac G5s with MorphOS which they run on very nicely, and I do my daily web-browsing (OWB - previously called the Origyn Web-Browser), DTP (PgS v4.1.5.6 Pro), scanning, music & radio listening, image editing and any other computing, almost in its entirety, using those systems on MorphOS, which is still being actively developed. In fact I'm replying to this message using one of my MacMini G4s running OWB v1.25. It all looks like a Windows system, but with reactiveness that many PC users could only dream of.

They are the most comfortable systems I have ever used, with "Intuition", and even better than my A1200 or A4000 Amiga systems, with whichever accelerator I had in them, or even when they had about 1/2Gb of RAM in them, to handle large image files. So MorphOS is very much like an Amiga, seeing as they're based on WB3.1, but far, far more advanced utilising the G4 or G5 CPUs, so they're basically as fast as a Pentium 4 with MorphOS being more than a match for responding to users instructions than any comparative Windows system I have ever used. Though with all this modern-day unnecessary heavy use of JavaScript on web-systems it does struggle a bit, but under normal circumstances a PageStream document of 100 pages loads in about 4 seconds, if not less.

With Deron's change of address, back to close to his 'roots' I think he has looked back at PageStream anew, and it is this verve that I'd like to encourage for him to complete the programs he was supposed to do at the time, but for whatever reason never 'mastered' and created his usual masterpiece, AKA new working versions of PageStream, for all the OS's he originally intended them for.

There are people on MorphOS who I feel sure would assist him with some of the difficulties he requested help with, namely MUI, as Frank Mariak already did some work in this area and he is one of the main active figures for updating MorphOS in the Development Team.

The Amiga 68k may be a more nostalgic system, but the PPC variants are still actively being developed for, and deserve to have their versions' release honoured, especially for those who paid for them, and I would happily pay a fair price, be that an upgrade or transfer for a v5 release of PageStream for MorphOS.

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Gord:

I agree with you. I loved the Amiga and it could have been the standard had Commodore be more strategic. But it is impossible to revive and Deron went beyond duty programming PageStream as the Amiga faded. I enjoyed being President of our Amiga User Group which had 400 members at the time. Now it is purely nostalgic memories of a true community which no other platform created. Still consider myself Amigan, in fact, it is part of my E-Mail signature, but that honors the past not the present or future.


On 27-Jul-19 4:18 PM, Gord Clink gord@... [PageStreamSupport] wrote:
 

Wow, It's been so long, I don't even remember making that remark.

I hear what you are saying, but I think the problem is that the Amiga is just a nostalgic system now. Even with new products like Vampire Accelerator etc. There will never be the following or the customer base it once had. Even the fastest Amiga is thousands of times slower then the current PC's. This makes it very difficult for anyone like Deron to spend very much time on products, as the payback is small. Don't get me wrong... I love my Amiga and enjoy coding on it, but I also have my day job which is working with PC's which bring in my income for my family. I'm sure Amiga developers are in the same boat. They can no longer take the Amiga seriously.

The Amiga was once so far ahead of all the other systems, that it caught the attention of people like you and I in the first place. But now its just an outdated piece of hardware that will not attract new users.

I will always play with my amiga, and even use Pagestream for what it is, but I don't blame anyone for now spending their time developing an old product for no return on their investment.

I think the Amiga could have had a chance if it would have went OpenSource back in 1994 immediately after commodore went bankrupt. It could really have been something now, but unfortunately it was just squandered and fought over which didn't do anyone any good. 

That's my two cents. I know its hard to read but its the reality unfortunately.

Gord

From: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com on behalf of am1gaman@... [PageStreamSupport]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 3:29:09 AM
To: PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PageStreamSupport] Re: PageStream Upgrade: What do you want/need?
 
 

Hi Gord,


It's been a while since I read your post, and frankly I felt it was an unfair and incorrect remark on your part, as far as it concerned me.

I should also add that I have never been so disillusioned with PageStream over the last 9 years (approx) that I felt there's not much point in replying to someone who doesn't grasp the situation correctly, that's you, and to this group as nothing is going to get done to fix or update PageStream back to where it should be right now - a premier program for DeskTop Publishing.

I said you didn't grasp the situation correctly because, when anyone buys a product it should be "fit for purpose, and of merchantable quality" - PageStream v5 of whatever version release you care to mention is not, sadly. So I've not been able to use the program from the date I bought the program for my OS4.0 system or OS4.1 or for my Amiga 68k system - That was TWO purchases. So, as with many other users expecting it to improve release after release to resolve the issues, its development just disappeared without trace, as have many of the avid Amiga fans who really relied and enthused about PageStream - me being one of those such users.

However, sending messages to this group, to get a user based reply, is frankly hit and miss - usually a miss as Deron often doesn't let them through, if I say something that he doesn't want to hear - the truth about lack of development on PageStream, and so my effort is making a reply is lost in the 'ether' - so you, and others don't even hear what you should really hear about the current situation by an avid fan of PageStream.

I bought PageStream v5.x.x.x for my Amiga 68k system, but found that it didn't work, basically at all, the GUI might load up, but then it might not, or it might just crash out completely. I never got any further with the OS4 release, and even though I was interested, in seeing the program become stable I bought the update for OS4, which I later ttransferred to a Windows PgS v5 as that did at least load up, as a stop-gap to seeing further improvements to PgS for the Amiga-type systems. At the time I didn't own a MorphOS system, but I do now and still am a registered user of MorphOS, but there is still no stable working release of PageStream for me to consider buying. I have asked Deron about that, but I've not had any reply from him on the subject, as yet, and I've been witing for a reply for months now, so it's not likely to happen - is it?

This more recent news that he has moved back to the State he has his 'roots' in has, it seems, spurred him onto considering plunging back into development for PageStream - which would be GREAT NEWS.

Though whether that would include the MorphOS version or the Amiga platform in general I don't know. 

However, I do know that Frank Mariak, from the MorphOS Development Team, did some low-level improvements to the MorphOS v5.x.x.x release that allowed it to actually run stably, but that no further development since then has been attempted by him or maybe been allowed by Deron - I do not know, as it's like 'trying to get blood out of a rock'. I know MorphOS users saw it running, and it looked good, and ran well and was stable. However, I know Deron is not familiar with MUI, but there are lots of MorphOS developers who would assist him to get a stable release in that regard if only he'd ask them.

There is a lot more potential for PageStream on the Amiga/MorphOS hardware than has been considered, but I too would have to be realistic about its current user base, as so many users have become disillusioned often caused by the inactivity of developers for those OSs to keep their software relevant for the hardware and OS it is proven to work well on.

The fact that the PgS4 PDF file was removed from the PageStream site, probably because it was only a W.I.P. when it was made available, was a bad move, and the fact that no printable documentation/manual for PageStream 5 was ever released was also a bad move.

It's OK for some issues to have online docs but all too often the fact that you can lay out in front of you a printed manual makes it far more direct than searching through webpage after webpage to reveal what you need to know to solve a dilemma to construct a document to the style you want.

I'd like to hope that this message gets through, via Deron, as it would go a long way to making me believe that PageStream has a future with the Amiga OS's.

There is no current Atari development, and there is not likely to be either, which is where PagStream started off, as Publishing Partner ST, but there is in the Amiga/MorphOS computing sector, so there is still a market to return to.

However, trying to break-back into Windows or Macintosh or even Linux would be a tall order, seeing as there is such a plethora of users using a wider variety of such software that they are already familiar with, and runs stably. So, why would they want to pay for software that currently would be probably unstable, and they would have no way of knowing if the project would materialise to a mature stable release eventually - which is the current situation with PageStream, I am sad to say.

I hope this message spurs Deron onto new progress with PageStream I really do as I am sad that v5 never materialised for the Amiga, but there is still a future that can be realised, and honoured.

bye for now,

Neil

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I think we should remember that when you pay for a product, you are not paying for future development but development that has already taken place in the version you own. :-)

Gord Clink
2019-07-29 09:36:23 CT #12
Deron Kazmaier
From: United States
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 4639

On 7/29/19 2:50 AM, am1gaman@yahoo.co.uk [PageStreamSupport] wrote:
>
>
> Hi Deron,
>
> I do own a few Mac systems now, which I didn't when I paid for the
> Amiga system, but I'd need to know the system requirements for current
> versions - as long as they actually work stably, before I aks for more
> details about transfer, upgrading, buying any new version of
> PageStream, as it needs to function correctly, which no version 5 of
> PageStream did for me, unlike v4 which was very stable to use.


Older versions of PageStream OSX supported PPC. Apple removed PPC
support in their tools some years ago and I have no way to build that
anymore. Those users are stuck with that version of PageStream and
everything else they have at that time.

If you want to know if it works on your non-PPC system, download and try
it. It runs in Demo mode if not supplied with proper registration
details. However, judging by past interactions with you, I'm betting we
are just wasting each other's time.

Deron


>
> I have 2 x Mac Mini x86 (Core2Duo) systems Snow Leopard 10.6.x with
> Intel built-in graphics,s o if this current PageStream would work on
> that I might be interested in it.
>
> I've also got a fe MacMini G4, PowerBook G4, and PowerMac G5 systems,
> so if a Mac OSX version of PageStream will work on those as well I
> might be interested.
>
> I'd really like to believe you'd be reconsidering working on
> PageStream again to resolve the issues you left incomplete for v5
> releases that never 'made the grade'.
>
> Neil
2019-07-29 15:36:16 CT #13
Don Maxwell
From: United States
Registered: 2009-01-14
Posts: 1
 Thanks, Deron! It's exciting to open PageStream on my new-ish Mac and load old documents from the Amiga days.  Unfortunately, the Mac says PageStream probably won't run in the next OS version, which will be 64 bit. (It's Mojave 10.14.5 now.)  I've gone over to Pages on the Mac because it does what little publishing I need these days--but it would be really comforting to have PageStream keep working forever.
2019-07-29 21:27:47 CT #14
Richard E. Crislip
From: Unknown
Registered: 2019-12-21
Posts: 177

On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:36:23 -0500
"PageStream Support deron@pagestream.org [PageStreamSupport]"
<PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

<big snip>

Hi Deron, for what it's worth, I STILL use PGSv5 on my Winders 10
system. It still meets my needs. Haven't tried it on my Amiga emulator
recently as v5 does fail, but v4 still works. In fairness, I haven't
used the emulator in months, maybe years, for anything but nostalgia
perusing. Thank you for the product, I even made a few bucks using it
when I operated a typesetting business. Cool

Cheers
2019-07-29 19:51:35 CT #15
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 Hi Deron,

I appreciate you replying to my questions, and before I go any further I would like to offer my kind wishes for your future back in your home state, which will hopefully be a more stable environment for your lifestyle, at least I hope so. So good luck, and have a happy future in Boonville.

My Yahoo handle is am1gaman, but my name is Neil Pearson, though you should also already have got my email details via the messages I leave, specifically as you're the moderator for this group, which if you don't I'm surprised at, but I don't feel changing my details at this point, after about 20 years of membership of this site as I don't feel it will make much/any benefit to other members.

If you want to make a note of my name/association with PageStream and the Amiga then by all means do so for any clarity of me you may want to make for the future.

I also appreciate you explaining the situation regarding PPC Mac programming, but what older Mac OSX PPC PageStream versions do you still have that you have completed and sold previously that I could buy, if I wanted to go that route?

Keeping a comment/reply as short as possible is not so easy, as almost 10 years have gone by, with very little said by you as to your intentions to make good on your initial commitment to release these Amiga versions, but you still advertise their availability as being part of the PageStream family. So all my concerns have been bottled up, and there is nowhere else to voice these concerns other than to the person who has the means to rectify them - you. Though I'd like to gain other users thoughts on their interest and opinions.

I feel sure others would consider using PageStream if they knew they could rely on it. Having complete printed documentation, in the form of a manual, for PageStream v4, AND v5 for that matter, would also be a major plus point. I have the truncated v4 PDF you released via the PageStream website, but later removed, all those years ago, which I'd like to be able to edit and make more complete, if only for my own use as I have the officially released v2.0, v2.2SE, and v3 manuals which are very handy, but a full manual for each release is, to my mind, all important with such a complicated and useful program as PageStream.

I seem to remember it was me that asked, all those years ago about a PDF filter for PageStream, which followed on soon afterwards, and then about Border creation, which you kindly went into the details of how to create your own, all of which I found really useful. So I don't always make things difficult for you. It is just that you haven't successfully completed the v5 Amiga projects satisfactorily, and that hurts me, and probably, back in the day, wen you were working on them all in the early 2000s was equally frustrating for you to not get them to work as you'd hoped without the many bugs that occurred to stall the project - to this day. Which is something that I feel compelled to tell you is very frustrating for me, and probably for many users who ended up in this same situation as me.

I was going to do an article on PageStream in the Amiga Future magazine, but I was hoping to have some good news to pass onto the readers about future release(s) of PageStream, as otherwise I'll have to only talk and reference back to v4.1.5.6 as anything after that for the Amiga systems just doesn't 'cut-the-mustard'.

As I've said, the Windows and the Amiga PageStream versions 5.x.x.x I already paid for have been of basically no use, as the program either crashes, is flaky, or just isn't reliable enough to trust to complete a document that I can load back up to re-edit.

That is the main concern I have had all along, and surely you must have had many other users complaining about the same/similar issues? There are certainly others who have made similar comments to this effect in this group on a few occasions.

Are you likely to re-visit any of the Amiga versions (v5.x.x.x) and go about once and for all fixing the issues so that the program that I paid for will actually work on the systems I paid for it to work on? As I want to plan ahead with any likely future for PageStream, which I sincerely hope there is.

Please let's not get to the point of making comments of "wasting each other's time" as I honestly feel let down that you didn't complete the task of making the Amiga-esque versions, and for that matter the Mac and Windows versions as well, what we should all expect them to function like. Maybe you had put your family life ahead of anything else back in the mid 2000s, which is not an unfair situation to be in, but that left your customers in the main with a very unsatisfactory product. However, maybe your priority has changed back to working on PageStream of recent times - I hope so.

Though, so far, that has wasted some of my energy trying to get you to see that this is what you should have done all along to "do what's right by your customer(s)" you really should be taking these comments 'on-board' and completing the task to a stable release for each v5 intended OS of PageStream.

I hope you continue to improve PageStream, but the lack of activity for PageStream, over the last 7+ years has surely not helped your program stay in any users mind as an actively developed program.

Having said that, this news/release about you having a, hopefully, more improved version for Mac OSX (even if it's only Intel based) is good news, and talk of updating a Linux version is good, but does not address the Amiga versions of PageStream and its lack of being stable on any of the variety of Amiga/MorphOS hardware that has been released, including the X1000, SAM460, X5000 or even the Apple PPC hardware that supports MorphOS.

Do you still have the MorphOS source code files for PageStream, and would you be prepared to spend sometime, maybe with someone who might help you with some of the issues you stated you had trouble with, if I was able to encourage someone to assist you with completing the stable release that Frank Mariak did some work on for PageStream v5.x.x.x?

You worked on the Amiga 68k systems for some years with PageStream, and much of that experience and method of implementing code will probably be valid for all the other Amiga-type OSs, so I feel sure you'd not be in too deep to fix them, but I still feel they deserve to be fixed, if you've the appetite to complete them.

I hope to hear back from you soon, and now that I have got most of what I feel strongly about, which I hope I have expressed fairly and logically to you so that you might consider my comments as actually quite reasonable - considering the wait to have had to endure to actually voice them.

Apologies this message is soooo long - I hope you have the stamina to read it all through,

kind regards,

Neil Pearson (Amigaman) 

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <deron@...> wrote :

On 7/29/19 2:50 AM, am1gaman@... [PageStreamSupport] wrote:
>
>
> Hi Deron,
>
> I do own a few Mac systems now, which I didn't when I paid for the
> Amiga system, but I'd need to know the system requirements for current
> versions - as long as they actually work stably, before I aks for more
> details about transfer, upgrading, buying any new version of
> PageStream, as it needs to function correctly, which no version 5 of
> PageStream did for me, unlike v4 which was very stable to use.


Older versions of PageStream OSX supported PPC. Apple removed PPC
support in their tools some years ago and I have no way to build that
anymore. Those users are stuck with that version of PageStream and
everything else they have at that time.

If you want to know if it works on your non-PPC system, download and try
it. It runs in Demo mode if not supplied with proper registration
details. However, judging by past interactions with you, I'm betting we
are just wasting each other's time.

Deron


>
> I have 2 x Mac Mini x86 (Core2Duo) systems Snow Leopard 10.6.x with
> Intel built-in graphics,s o if this current PageStream would work on
> that I might be interested in it.
>
> I've also got a fe MacMini G4, PowerBook G4, and PowerMac G5 systems,
> so if a Mac OSX version of PageStream will work on those as well I
> might be interested.
>
> I'd really like to believe you'd be reconsidering working on
> PageStream again to resolve the issues you left incomplete for v5
> releases that never 'made the grade'.
>
> Neil
2019-07-29 15:42:21 CT #16
Ezequiel Partida
From: Mexico
Registered: 2006-02-07
Posts: 6

Hello Deron,

I am trying to add a point to a path with no luck.

I move the mouse pointer to the position I want to add the path, press
Alt Key and press the mouse button in the position.. The mouse pointer
becomes a cross.. and the pointer is never added but the windows moves.

It seems that Kde Plasma in interfering with pagestreams functions..

Any ideas?..

I am trying to find out how to disable this KDE Plasma Function if possible.

Regards

Ezequiel
2019-07-29 19:55:41 CT #17
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 Deron,

I never tried to make out that I was anyone other than myself - Neil (am1gaman) in this thread. If Dr Keller's signature was left in then that was unintentional in that sense, as I don't do impersonations.

What facts have I not stuck to over the years? No, really ?

I really don't want to go down this route, as it gets us nowhere - I stick to facts. The Amiga versions of PageStream are basically a joke - a very bad joke, which is not the way they should have been left. As you made a commitment to create them, and that encouraged users to pay for it then you should have seen it through to a successful conclusion - you haven't done that so far - that is basically my point - in one page.

I know you have been fair over the years to many, if not all PageStream users, but leaving the Amiga users in that state was not one of your better moments in history, and I hope for that realisation to sink-in, and for the matter to be correctly addressed by you, and fixed.

Neil Pearson (am1gaman)

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <am1gaman@...> wrote :

Neil,
First, I've asked you to identify yourself in your email. "Am1gaman" doesn't cut it. Also, this email was cut to make it look like Dr. Keller wrote it. I've corrected that by removing his signature from the end.

Why have I not let some of your emails through? Because you can't stick to the fact nor can you write what you have to say in less than a page. You make up facts to fit your narrative, and I don't have time to read your papers and write corrections. I'm going to let this one through, but you do more harm to your cause than good.

Deron

-
2019-07-29 16:08:12 CT #18
Ezequiel Partida
From: Mexico
Registered: 2006-02-07
Posts: 6

Hello Deron,

> I am trying to add a point to a path with no luck.

> I move the mouse pointer to the position I want to add the path,
press Alt Key and press the mouse button in the position.. The mouse
pointer becomes a cross.. and the pointer is never added but the windows
moves.

> It seems that Kde Plasma in interfering with pagestreams functions..

> Any ideas?..

> I am trying to find out how to disable this KDE Plasma Function if
possible.

> Regards

> Ezequiel

I just found a solution.

Plasma System Settings / Windows Behaviour / Windows Actions..

I just removed the left button from the settings..

Regards,
Ezequiel
2019-07-29 22:00:51 CT #19
Giovanni Bianchessi
From: Italy
Registered: 2006-02-08
Posts: 126
 Yes, now it works.
I was using Pagestream (first on Amiga, then on Mac) since version 2.2 and I had to switch to Scribus time ago cause cut/copy/paste were not working.
But actually it is too complex to switch back to Pagestream.

Regards
Giovanni Bianchessi

Il giorno 28 lug 2019, alle ore 22:34, Ingo Heinicke I.Heinicke@skyynet.de [PageStreamSupport] <PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:

Hello Deron,

Good to read you're still alive and maintaining the code to keep it
running. It would be good to provide the updated versions on your
homepage for those looking for it.

I just downloaded PGS from your link and at first sight it works loading
and printing docs. Even copy & paste work which was an issue the last
time I tried to use PGS when it still worked.

Thanks,

Ingo

> So for all you Mac owners who just sighed and moved on, here is the link 
> to the latest PageStream5 for Mac. Demo, Full, or Pro same binary.
> 
> http://pagestream.org/PageStream5.0.6.4.dmg
2019-08-09 20:23:10 CT #20
Tim Doty
From: United States
Registered: 2006-02-06
Posts: 2939

Thanks for the updated version! It fixes the copy/paste bug here as well.

Tim Doty

> On Jul 28, 2019, at 8:58 AM, PageStream Support deron@pagestream.org [PageStreamSupport] <PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> On 7/27/19 2:20 PM, Ingo Heinicke I.Heinicke@skyynet.de
> [PageStreamSupport] wrote:
> > When macOS Sierra appeared PageStream refused to work. I could load it
> > but not much more. This persisted until now.
>
> Through the last OSX upgrades, I've kept PageStream functional on those
> platforms. I've just never been able to put together the documentation
> that goes with an upgrade, so I've never released it publicly. If
> someone contacted me with a problem, I gave them the link.
>
> So for all you Mac owners who just sighed and moved on, here is the link
> to the latest PageStream5 for Mac. Demo, Full, or Pro same binary.
>
>http://pagestream.org/PageStream5.0.6.4.dmg
>
> Deron
>
> > Best Regards from Germany,
> >
> > Ingo
> >
>
> --
> Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
> Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
> PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows
>
>
>


2019-08-13 03:37:36 CT #21
Amigaman
From: Unknown
Registered: 2012-05-05
Posts: 14
 Hi Deron,

I trust you realise my previous comments were correct and accurate, however stinging they may be, as you have never delivered on the Amiga ports of PageStream with any stable release.

I was struck when recently reading the DTPWorld articles you used to sporadically release, specifically Issue 13, the last one released, back in 2005, where the main article it seems was written by Dan Kilroy, but some of the Newsletter was also by you, so you must have read it back then, and OK'd it, which stated ...

"Spring visited for a brief moment here in the Northwoods of Wisconsin before winter came back for what we hope is one last time. Like the coming of spring, PageStream5.0 Amiga will not be denied! Many folks have asked how the various projects are coming along and I would like to outline where we stand as best as I can.

Since completing PageStream5.0 Windows and Linux*, Deron has been concentrating on completing the MUI version of PageStream Amiga. A MUI version is currently in development for the Classic Amiga, MorphOS and now the AmigaOne/OS4. That's right, Tuesday of this week Deron received a current AmigaOne from the great folks at Hyperion!

The first native version of PageStream MorphOS PPC test program and libraries has been uploaded to the web site. We ask that those users download and test the program on their computers and report back to us on the PageStreamAmigaBeta mailing list. We expect an OS4 version to follow soon. For those users who prefer not to use MUI, never fear. A ClassAct/Reaction version of PageStream Amiga is in the works!

As Deron reported a few weeks ago on the main PageStream Support list, work on the Macintosh OSX version of PageStream will begin public testing once the Amiga versions reach a stable point."

The most upsetting comment being "the Macintosh OSX version of PageStream will begin public testing once the Amiga versions reach a stable point." Which even now, 14+ years on has still never materialised, and is the cause for my comments here.

So, my previous message in which I said "What facts have I not stuck to over the years? No, really ?", you have not come back during that time with any facts that support your comment, so I must assume you concede that I have told it "as-it-is" and you have let us all down, and not kept your word, and failed to explain why you have failed to continue work on the Amiga versions to a point where they are all stable as you intended at the time?

What has happened to your honour in such matters?

I believe you have had family issues in the meanwhile and the upheaval of moving to Dakota, and now back to your home state and Boonville have all probably taken there toll on you personally. That aside, from a professional and commercial standpoint you gave everyone who paid for the Amiga version(s) a promise to deliver on a piece of software, which hasn't happened. For which there is no reason/explanation and for which you have unsurprisingly let down many people in the Amiga domain, me included.

Do you intend to deliver on the Amiga version(s)?

Neil Pearson

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <am1gaman@...> wrote :

Deron,

I never tried to make out that I was anyone other than myself - Neil (am1gaman) in this thread. If Dr Keller's signature was left in then that was unintentional in that sense, as I don't do impersonations.

What facts have I not stuck to over the years? No, really ?

I really don't want to go down this route, as it gets us nowhere - I stick to facts. The Amiga versions of PageStream are basically a joke - a very bad joke, which is not the way they should have been left. As you made a commitment to create them, and that encouraged users to pay for it then you should have seen it through to a successful conclusion - you haven't done that so far - that is basically my point - in one page.

I know you have been fair over the years to many, if not all PageStream users, but leaving the Amiga users in that state was not one of your better moments in history, and I hope for that realisation to sink-in, and for the matter to be correctly addressed by you, and fixed.

Neil Pearson (am1gaman)

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <am1gaman@...> wrote :

Neil,
First, I've asked you to identify yourself in your email. "Am1gaman" doesn't cut it. Also, this email was cut to make it look like Dr. Keller wrote it. I've corrected that by removing his signature from the end.

Why have I not let some of your emails through? Because you can't stick to the fact nor can you write what you have to say in less than a page. You make up facts to fit your narrative, and I don't have time to read your papers and write corrections. I'm going to let this one through, but you do more harm to your cause than good.

Deron

-
2019-08-13 13:55:05 CT #22
Lawrence F. Keller
From: United States
Registered: 2006-02-15
Posts: 65

All:

From what I can tell, Deron had made a good faith effort on all fronts. I think he unfortunately kept trying to do the impossible. He accomplished much but I don't think with the unsettled efforts on AmigaOS, the collapse of even a small market and daily life that the software goals were possible. Versions of PS were, and are, available that work better than I would have expected. I don't think justice is served in this instance by asking for am impossible effort.

On 12-Aug-19 11:37 PM, am1gaman@yahoo.co.uk [PageStreamSupport] wrote:
 

Hi Deron,


I trust you realise my previous comments were correct and accurate, however stinging they may be, as you have never delivered on the Amiga ports of PageStream with any stable release.

I was struck when recently reading the DTPWorld articles you used to sporadically release, specifically Issue 13, the last one released, back in 2005, where the main article it seems was written by Dan Kilroy, but some of the Newsletter was also by you, so you must have read it back then, and OK'd it, which stated ...

"Spring visited for a brief moment here in the Northwoods of Wisconsin before winter came back for what we hope is one last time. Like the coming of spring, PageStream5.0 Amiga will not be denied! Many folks have asked how the various projects are coming along and I would like to outline where we stand as best as I can.

Since completin g PageStream5.0 Windows and Linux*, Deron has been concentrating on completing the MUI version of PageStream Amiga. A MUI version is currently in development for the Classic Amiga, MorphOS and now the AmigaOne/OS4. That's right, Tuesday of this week Deron received a current AmigaOne from the great folks at Hyperion!

The first native version of PageStream MorphOS PPC test program and libraries has been uploaded to the web site. We ask that those users download and test the program on their computers and report back to us on the PageStreamAmigaBeta mailing list. We expect an OS4 version to follow soon. For those users who prefer not to use MUI, never fear. A ClassAct/Reaction version of PageStream Amiga is in the works!

As Deron reported a few weeks ago on the main PageStream Support list, work on the Macintosh OSX version of PageStream will begin public testing once the Amiga versions reach a stable point."

The most upsetting comment being "the Macintosh OSX version of PageStream will begin public testing once the Amiga versions reach a stable point." Which even now, 14+ years on has still never materialised, and is the cause for my comments here.

So, my previous message in which I said "What facts have I not stuck to over the years? No, really ?", you have not come back during that time with any facts that support your comment, so I must assume you concede that I have told it "as-it-is" and you have let us all down, and not kept your word, and failed to explain why you have failed to continue work on the Amiga versions to a point where they are all stable as you intended at the time?

What has happened to your honour in such matters?

I believe you have had f amily issues in the meanwhile and the upheaval of moving to Dakota, and now back to your home state and Boonville have all probably taken there toll on you personally. That aside, from a professional and commercial standpoint you gave everyone who paid for the Amiga version(s) a promise to deliver on a piece of software, which hasn't happened. For which there is no reason/explanation and for which you have unsurprisingly let down many people in the Amiga domain, me included.

Do you intend to deliver on the Amiga version(s)?

Neil Pearson

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <am1gaman@...> wrote :

Deron,

I never tried to make out that I was anyone other than myself - Neil (am1gaman) in this thread. If Dr Keller's signature was left in then that was unintentional in that sense, as I don't do impersonations.

What facts have I not stuck to over the years? No, really ?

I really don't want to go down this route, as it gets us nowhere - I stick to facts. The Amiga versions of PageStream are basically a joke - a very bad joke, which is not the way they should have been left. As you made a commitment to create them, and that encouraged users to pay for it then you should have seen it through to a successful conclusion - you haven't done that so far - that is basically my point - in one page.

I know you have been fair over the years to many, if not all PageStream users, but leaving the Amiga users in that state was not one of your better moments in history, and I hope for that realisation to sink-in, and for the matter to be correctly addressed by you, and fixed.

Neil Pearson (am1gaman)

---In PageStreamSupport@yahoogroups.com, <am1gaman@...> wrote :

Neil,
First, I've asked you to identify yourself in your email. "Am1gaman" doesn't cut it. Also, this email was cut to make it look like Dr. Keller wrote it. I've corrected that by removing his signature from the end.

Why have I not let some of your emails through? Because you can't stick to the fact nor can you write what you have to say in less than a page. You make up facts to fit your narrative, and I don't have time to read your papers and write correcti ons. I'm going to let this one through, but you do more harm to your cause than good.

Deron

-
-- 
Dr. Larry Keller
Ohio Amigan
lkeller100@cox.net
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