Has anybody else found this bugette?
1. Open "Insert -> Character"
2. When the window opens, the type face display only shows 2/3rds of the typeface image; the right third isn't there. The image isn't smushed, just doesn't show completely (e.g., letters on the typeface display toward the right are cut off in the middle.

Running Debian "Etch" with KDE 3.5

- Nick -

-- Nick --
nickcook1@earthlink.net

On Tuesday 14 March 2006 09:08 am, Nick Cook wrote:
> Has anybody else found this bugette?
> 1. Open "Insert -> Character"
> 2. When the window opens, the type face display only shows 2/3rds of the
> typeface image; the right third isn't there. The image isn't smushed, just
> doesn't show completely (e.g., letters on the typeface display toward the
> right are cut off in the middle.
>
> Running Debian "Etch" with KDE 3.5

You're right. That must've just gotten in the latest version because I use
that requester enough I'd've thought I'd've noticed it. I'll go ahead and put
in a bug report in bugzilla for tracking this.

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

>On Tuesday 14 March 2006 09:08 am, Nick Cook wrote:
>
>
>>Has anybody else found this bugette?
>>1. Open "Insert -> Character"
>>2. When the window opens, the type face display only shows 2/3rds of the
>>typeface image; the right third isn't there. The image isn't smushed, just
>>doesn't show completely (e.g., letters on the typeface display toward the
>>right are cut off in the middle.
>>
>>Running Debian "Etch" with KDE 3.5
>>
>>
>
>You're right. That must've just gotten in the latest version because I use
>that requester enough I'd've thought I'd've noticed it. I'll go ahead and put
>in a bug report in bugzilla for tracking this.
>
>Tim Doty
>
>
>
>
In PgS 4.1.7.12 on Debian "Sarge" (Gnome and KDE both) this found too.
Bertold

Oh, my. I just went to look over PGS-Linux 'Help', trying to see why the
font directory preferences I had set weren't having any effect on the
list of fonts available, and discovered that under 'Customizing
Pagestream' only "Amiga System Preferences" get covered -- despite the
very "Windows-y" look of all the other customization sections. I suspect
the lack of Linux-specific 'Help' files could be really damaging if
there were to be a thorough review posted or published. 8-(

That said, I'm well aware that both Deron and Dan have more than
sufficient other tasks with equal or higher priority. Has there been any
talk of a *user-generated* collection of help files to begin to patch
the gap?
--
Mike Wilson
PS: does anyone reading this have a likely answer for the question that
'Help' did not?

On Tuesday 14 March 2006 05:04 pm, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Oh, my. I just went to look over PGS-Linux 'Help', trying to see why the
> font directory preferences I had set weren't having any effect on the
> list of fonts available, and discovered that under 'Customizing
> Pagestream' only "Amiga System Preferences" get covered -- despite the
> very "Windows-y" look of all the other customization sections. I suspect
> the lack of Linux-specific 'Help' files could be really damaging if
> there were to be a thorough review posted or published. 8-(

Actually, the help system documentation is so out of date and inaccurate it
would be damaging to any platform if thoroughly review (/me ducks). HOWEVER,
the deficiencies are being addressed. Proper documentation is a major
undertaking, often as much as the application. Most documentation doesn't
meet my standards ;^)

> That said, I'm well aware that both Deron and Dan have more than
> sufficient other tasks with equal or higher priority. Has there been any
> talk of a *user-generated* collection of help files to begin to patch
> the gap?

Yes, there has been some talk. A major problem for any user generated
collection is maintaining accuracy and consistency. Also, as previously
noted, documentation is far from trivial. Meaning, even though it is
something that users can contribute to, most won't. I'm not faulting them,
I'm pointing out that people often mean well and then realize how little time
they have to contribute.

The good news is that a documentation wiki is being setup. The current
documentation will probably serve as the basis. This documentation wiki will
provide the form and structure and, in some fashion, allow users to
contribute to it. I expect that any official documentation will retain its
HTML aspect so that it can be distributed with PgS for offline perusal with
any browser.

When will this happen? I don't know, but that is one (major) part of the
revamping of the website. I'm waiting to be able to contribute some of my
notes on the scripting (which suffers the most in the current documentation).

Tim Doty

>Oh, my. I just went to look over PGS-Linux 'Help', trying to see why the
>font directory preferences I had set weren't having any effect on the
>list of fonts available, and discovered that under 'Customizing
>Pagestream' only "Amiga System Preferences" get covered -- despite the
>very "Windows-y" look of all the other customization sections. I suspect
>the lack of Linux-specific 'Help' files could be really damaging if
>there were to be a thorough review posted or published. 8-(

Actually, there is very little different between the platforms, but Linux
is laking in that little bit it needs. Installation is covered in the
readme.linux. In the past installation has never been included because you
had to have it installed to view it, but now that we have it on our web
site as well, it seems to me that has changed.

>That said, I'm well aware that both Deron and Dan have more than
>sufficient other tasks with equal or higher priority. Has there been any
>talk of a *user-generated* collection of help files to begin to patch
>the gap?

Actually, we are just now getting the online docs up and include the
ability for folks to post notes etc. The plan is that I can post notes into
it as new features come up, or mistakes/missing features are pointed out,
and then someone with more time and a better flair for English can sweep
through the help from time to time and incorporate the new into the
old. The goal would be to have no comments/ammendmends, but everything
appropriate included into the docs.

>--
>Mike Wilson
>PS: does anyone reading this have a likely answer for the question that
>'Help' did not

That is actually a very new feature, and is now pretty much the same on all
the 5.0 platforms. I have some other goodies in the works for it as well.
That said, I'm not sure what you question is. The linux system fonts are
always added to PageStream at this time. That is, fonts that PageStream can
work with. When you add a font path, it will only add the fonts it can work
with. That would primarily be TrueType and Type 1 (and a few related
outline fonts like OpenType). Bitmap fonts are ignored.

So what is your question?

Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

>Has anybody else found this bugette?
>1. Open "Insert -> Character"
>2. When the window opens, the type face display only shows 2/3rds of the
>typeface image; the right third isn't there. The image isn't smushed, just
>doesn't show completely (e.g., letters on the typeface display toward the
>right are cut off in the middle.

Thanks for the report!

Tim had reported it and filed a bug in bugzilla a few days ago. I'll try
and have it fixed in the next release.

>Running Debian "Etch" with KDE 3.5
>
>- Nick -
>
>-- Nick --
>nickcook1@earthlink.net

Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

PageStream Support wrote:

> The linux system fonts are
> always added to PageStream at this time. That is, fonts that PageStream can
> work with. When you add a font path, it will only add the fonts it can work
> with. That would primarily be TrueType and Type 1 (and a few related
> outline fonts like OpenType). Bitmap fonts are ignored.

Likewise PGS' old .DMF/.FM vector fonts, correct?

> So what is your question?

After reading through your paragraph above, I guess my question is: why
have the 'add font directory' option in the PGS-Linux menus at all? That
is, unless it ties to code that can add to the OS's index of fonts
(which, with the variation among distros in font management details,
probably isn't a place that's worth going to).

Back on *AmigaOS*, which is where my expectations were formed, PGS was
and is quite happy to operate with whatever fonts you point it at
regardless of what the OS has for a list of known fonts, no?
--
Mike Wilson

PageStream Support wrote:

> Actually, there is very little different between the platforms, but Linux
> is laking in that little bit it needs.

Too true. However, I also noted a mish-mosh of screen shots and
terminology (e.g. "chooser" was mentioned in one section, a strictly Mac
term) that suggests it's time each OS got separate treatment. Hey, at
best there'd be separate screenshots for Gnome vs KDE within the Linux
'Help' files, right?

> Installation is covered in the
> readme.linux. In the past installation has never been included because you
> had to have it installed to view it, but now that we have it on our web
> site as well, it seems to me that has changed.

Good idea. However, it might be well to modify "readme.linux" so it's
made clear that replacing the 'path' fix that "Run Pagestream5" provides
so tidily is *highly* distro-specific. I was a tad surprised to find
that the topic of where and how to handle path-setting is an active
policy issue among Ubuntu's developers just now, for example. Merely
dropping the space in that script's filename could let most PGS-Linux
users dodge a world of woes.

MW>Has there been any
MW>talk of a *user-generated* collection of help files to begin to patch
MW>the gap?

> Actually, we are just now getting the online docs up and include the
> ability for folks to post notes etc. The plan is that I can post notes into
> it as new features come up, or mistakes/missing features are pointed out,
> and then someone with more time and a better flair for English can sweep
> through the help from time to time and incorporate the new into the
> old.

As a retired university prof with decades of experience in editing
mangled English prose I'd be glad to volunteer if I can be of help in
that capacity. Then again, this is a user community focussed on DTP, so
it ought to have editorial experience and talent in abundance.

> The goal would be to have no comments/ammendmends, but everything
> appropriate included into the docs.

Definitely the way to go. Definitely no small task, either, and by
nature ongoing rather than once-and-for-all.
--
Mike Wilson

On Wednesday 15 March 2006 10:35 am, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> PageStream Support wrote:
> > Actually, there is very little different between the platforms, but Linux
> > is laking in that little bit it needs.
>
> Too true. However, I also noted a mish-mosh of screen shots and
> terminology (e.g. "chooser" was mentioned in one section, a strictly Mac
> term) that suggests it's time each OS got separate treatment. Hey, at
> best there'd be separate screenshots for Gnome vs KDE within the Linux
> 'Help' files, right?

It's quite a bit of work to get and maintain screenshots. Zealots of each
platform are offended at seeing a screenshot of another platform (I'm not
suggesting you're such a zealot -- but some people get darn religious about
it) so the middle ground of mixing platforms for the screenshots was chosen.

> > Installation is covered in the
> > readme.linux. In the past installation has never been included because
> > you had to have it installed to view it, but now that we have it on our
> > web site as well, it seems to me that has changed.
>
> Good idea. However, it might be well to modify "readme.linux" so it's
> made clear that replacing the 'path' fix that "Run Pagestream5" provides
> so tidily is *highly* distro-specific. I was a tad surprised to find
> that the topic of where and how to handle path-setting is an active
> policy issue among Ubuntu's developers just now, for example. Merely
> dropping the space in that script's filename could let most PGS-Linux
> users dodge a world of woes.

It isn't just Ubuntu. There's the LSB, but *nobody* adheres to it completely.
When I first started using linux I was confused for some
time. /opt? /usr? /usr/local? Heck, some places do /local and such. OTOH for
the case where someone is actually using a multi-user system you can't just
drop it into the user's directory.

Most people are simple users and having a self-contained directory that they
can simply extract and use allows them to put it anywhere they see fit.

Tim Doty

On Wednesday 15 March 2006 10:09 am, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> PageStream Support wrote:
> > The linux system fonts are
> > always added to PageStream at this time. That is, fonts that PageStream
> > can work with. When you add a font path, it will only add the fonts it
> > can work with. That would primarily be TrueType and Type 1 (and a few
> > related outline fonts like OpenType). Bitmap fonts are ignored.
>
> Likewise PGS' old .DMF/.FM vector fonts, correct?
>
> > So what is your question?
>
> After reading through your paragraph above, I guess my question is: why
> have the 'add font directory' option in the PGS-Linux menus at all? That
> is, unless it ties to code that can add to the OS's index of fonts
> (which, with the variation among distros in font management details,
> probably isn't a place that's worth going to).

I'm sorry I forgot to address your font preferences question initially. The
code is needed for the Amiga so it might as well be available on all
platforms. I personally like the idea a lot. Most OSes don't provide real
font management (the closest I'm aware of is OS X). Just having a list of
fonts (which is what the OS provides) is insufficient for any serious
typography. The ability to have font collections allows reasonable
management/use/selection from a large quantity of fonts.

For serious DTP this has been handled through third party software. Extensis
Suitcase IIRC on the macintosh. While it may not be absolutely necessary it
does increase the potential for professional use.

If you get a quark document that has fonts not installed on your system those
fonts, if embedded, can still be used in that document. The old way is
acquiring those fonts and installing them on the system. Ugly, and if you are
a service bureau you end up with more fonts installed than anyone wants to
deal with. Ergo, the need for font management.

Again, not absolutely necessary, but useful. And until recently adding fonts
to linux/X Windows was a black art. And it still may be on some distros. By
having the ability to add fonts for use in PgS *in* PgS it eases this
problem.

> Back on *AmigaOS*, which is where my expectations were formed, PGS was
> and is quite happy to operate with whatever fonts you point it at
> regardless of what the OS has for a list of known fonts, no?

In fact on the Amiga PgS doesn't even use the system fonts. Meaning, they
aren't automatically available. The problem there was the OS didn't provide
sufficient capability for DTP so Deron had no choice. Other OSes provide
better capabilities (Deron could wax more eloquently on the subject than my
meager memory of discussions during earlier linux development) and it isn't
necessary.

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

[snip]

> I'm sorry I forgot to address your font preferences question initially. The
> code is needed for the Amiga so it might as well be available on all
> platforms. I personally like the idea a lot.

Now I'm *really* confused. The reply I had from Deron (to whom I was
responding in the message you're quoting) seemed to me to say that
PGS-Linux *does not* add to the OS-created list of available fonts at
all. If true, that means it's both pointless and misleading to retain
this 'customization' option in the Linux version's menus, no?
--
Mike Wilson

On Wednesday 15 March 2006 06:41 pm, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Tim Doty wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I'm sorry I forgot to address your font preferences question initially.
> > The code is needed for the Amiga so it might as well be available on all
> > platforms. I personally like the idea a lot.
>
> Now I'm *really* confused. The reply I had from Deron (to whom I was
> responding in the message you're quoting) seemed to me to say that
> PGS-Linux *does not* add to the OS-created list of available fonts at
> all. If true, that means it's both pointless and misleading to retain
> this 'customization' option in the Linux version's menus, no?

There is *no* linux font management software. None. Font management may not be
important for you, but I think if you got a taste of it you'd like it. I
believe Deron is planning on implementing font collections (it's pretty much
there already). If he adds on-the-fly activation with handling of embedded
fonts then it will rock.

Font management is necessary for reasonable handling of large quantities of
fonts. For a hobbyist this might never be an issue, but for professional work
this quickly becomes a necessity.

I'm a hobbyist when it comes to DTP, but I like having the PgS font
preferences because it allows me to add fonts without cluttering the system
font list. It is slightly clumsy now, but I can add and remove font
collections (I've got the fonts organized in directories as collections).

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

> There is *no* linux font management software. None. Font management may not be
> important for you, but I think if you got a taste of it you'd like it. I
> believe Deron is planning on implementing font collections (it's pretty much
> there already). If he adds on-the-fly activation with handling of embedded
> fonts then it will rock.

Whoa, there. You have my position out by 180 degrees. I'm neither
ignorant of nor opposed to font management s/w. But all I can see (so
far) in PGS-Linux is a complete absence of any way to do anything about
the list of fonts that my OS has 'learned'.

[snip]

> I'm a hobbyist when it comes to DTP, but I like having the PgS font
> preferences because it allows me to add fonts without cluttering the system
> font list. It is slightly clumsy now, but I can add and remove font
> collections (I've got the fonts organized in directories as collections).

Again, it seems my messages are not getting through clearly. As Deron
gives me to understand how PGS-Linux deals with fonts, there is *no* way
to *add* fonts to the OS-generated list at all. Are you saying there
does exist (or soon will) the ability to at least *subtract* from the
OS-wide font list in PGS' displayed list of available fonts?

Delightful, if true: Ubuntu, because it is intended for world-wide
usability, installs a great many fonts that are not of any immediate use
to me yet would be a big pain to delete, only to have them re-appear at
the next version update install. So far I've been reluctant to add any
of the many font directories in my collection to an OS list that is too
big for convenient use already. The option to place font sub-sets in
directories, and then be able to hide or show them as best suits the
project at hand, should be a major boasting point in PGS' favour.
--
Mike Wilson

On Wednesday 15 March 2006 08:16 pm, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
[snip]
> Whoa, there. You have my position out by 180 degrees. I'm neither
> ignorant of nor opposed to font management s/w. But all I can see (so
> far) in PGS-Linux is a complete absence of any way to do anything about
> the list of fonts that my OS has 'learned'.

Sorry I mistook you.

[snip]
> Again, it seems my messages are not getting through clearly. As Deron
> gives me to understand how PGS-Linux deals with fonts, there is *no* way
> to *add* fonts to the OS-generated list at all. Are you saying there
> does exist (or soon will) the ability to at least *subtract* from the
> OS-wide font list in PGS' displayed list of available fonts?

I have fonts added through the font preferences menu. Being able to subtract
is another matter and not a present capability.

> Delightful, if true: Ubuntu, because it is intended for world-wide
> usability, installs a great many fonts that are not of any immediate use
> to me yet would be a big pain to delete, only to have them re-appear at
> the next version update install. So far I've been reluctant to add any
> of the many font directories in my collection to an OS list that is too
> big for convenient use already. The option to place font sub-sets in
> directories, and then be able to hide or show them as best suits the
> project at hand, should be a major boasting point in PGS' favour.

As I mentioned the current ability is limited and clumsy from a font
management perspective. What we have is:

1. System fonts. Currently we're stuck with them.

2. Fonts added through PgS. These can be enabled/disabled through the font
preferences dialog. More accurate would be add/remove directories at a time.
Because you don't have to restart PgS for the changes to take place it works,
but is clumsy.

One less-than-ideal-but-strictly-cosmetic issue is that a directory when added
gets two listings: one with and one without a trailing slash. Since adding
the directories I have added I haven't messed with it. Seems like there was
some annoyance with the path setting (like dropping the selected directory
and using the path up to that point?) but it was an earlier version and this
behavior may be better now.

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

> I have fonts added through the font preferences menu. Being able to subtract
> is another matter and not a present capability.

Now we're getting somewhere. When *I* try to add font directories with
PGS5 (latest d/l version), nothing happens.

> As I mentioned the current ability is limited and clumsy from a font
> management perspective. What we have is:
>
> 1. System fonts. Currently we're stuck with them.

Oh, bother.

> 2. Fonts added through PgS. These can be enabled/disabled through the font
> preferences dialog. More accurate would be add/remove directories at a time.
> Because you don't have to restart PgS for the changes to take place it works,
> but is clumsy.

Apparently it works only for some users, and I ain't one of 'em. 8-(

> One less-than-ideal-but-strictly-cosmetic issue is that a directory when added
> gets two listings: one with and one without a trailing slash. Since adding
> the directories I have added I haven't messed with it. Seems like there was
> some annoyance with the path setting (like dropping the selected directory
> and using the path up to that point?) but it was an earlier version and this
> behavior may be better now.

Or it could be worse: you may now be in the boat with me? Hmmm. There
ought to be an error message generated when my attempt to add a font
directory fails; now I just have to learn where to find it. Ahhhh ...
Linux: massively powerful, powerfully obscure.
--
Mike Wilson
--

> > The linux system fonts are
> > always added to PageStream at this time. That is, fonts that PageStream
> can
> > work with. When you add a font path, it will only add the fonts it can
> work
> > with. That would primarily be TrueType and Type 1 (and a few related
> > outline fonts like OpenType). Bitmap fonts are ignored.
>
>Likewise PGS' old .DMF/.FM vector fonts, correct?

PageStream Linux does not support the old DMF/FM fonts (yet. If we add
support to the Amiga version of 5.0 for it, then yes the Linux version
would get that support as well).

> > So what is your question?
>
>After reading through your paragraph above, I guess my question is: why
>have the 'add font directory' option in the PGS-Linux menus at all?

So you can manage fonts that you might not have in your main linux
distribution. Most likely you would add them in for all to use. But the
features was "free" for Linux, and for me it has come in very handy. I can
keep the unusual fonts out of the system folder, and just add them in for
PageStream as needed. The next step, actual font management, is even nicer!

>That is, unless it ties to code that can add to the OS's index of fonts
>(which, with the variation among distros in font management details,
>probably isn't a place that's worth going to).

Not a chance! The linux system doesn't really seem to like dynamically
adding and removing fonts! I don't see any notification method to allow
apps to update font lists etc.

>Back on *AmigaOS*, which is where my expectations were formed, PGS was
>and is quite happy to operate with whatever fonts you point it at
>regardless of what the OS has for a list of known fonts, no?

Yes, and the same here on Linux. Maybe I just don't understand what you are
saying. Been "one of those days".

>Mike Wilson

Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

> > I'm sorry I forgot to address your font preferences question initially.
> The
> > code is needed for the Amiga so it might as well be available on all
> > platforms. I personally like the idea a lot.
>
>Now I'm *really* confused. The reply I had from Deron (to whom I was
>responding in the message you're quoting) seemed to me to say that
>PGS-Linux *does not* add to the OS-created list of available fonts at
>all. If true, that means it's both pointless and misleading to retain
>this 'customization' option in the Linux version's menus, no?

I think we are talking past each other.

When PageStream Linux runs, it loads all the fonts from the "system" font
paths (actually it uses fontconfig), and to that list of fonts, it then
adds everything you have added in the PageStream font prefs to that list.
That is the list of fonts that is then displays to you in the font menu.

When you add a new font path in the PageStream font prefs, it adds those
new fonts to the list of fonts displayed _in_PageStream_. It does _not_ add
(or remove) any fonts available to the "system" (ie, other applications).
The changes you make in the PageStream font prefs only changes the fonts
seen in PageStream.

Deron

>Mike Wilson

Deron Kazmaier - support@pagestream.org
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.pagestream.org
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

On Wednesday 15 March 2006 10:14 pm, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Tim Doty wrote:
> > I have fonts added through the font preferences menu. Being able to
> > subtract is another matter and not a present capability.
>
> Now we're getting somewhere. When *I* try to add font directories with
> PGS5 (latest d/l version), nothing happens.

I deleted all my font dirs added in PgS, restarted PgS and verified that they
were gone. This way I'm as close to being in your position as I can be.
Adding the fonts this is what I got:

Menu: File/System Preferences/Fonts...
Font preferences dialog, click the Add... button
In the requester I browse to the font directory I want, single click on the
folder in the folder list and click OK. The parent of the selected folder
(e.g., the currently displayed path) is added to the font dir list.

Back to the requester I browse to the font directory I want, double click on
the folder in the folder list (so that the desired path is shown in the drop
down menu) and click OK. The path is added to the font dir list.

I create a new document, select the text tool, click to create a frameless
text object, open the font requester, and the special font in the directory
(in this case that directory has but a single font) is available.

I went through and added back in all the font dirs I want. Save. Restart PgS.
All the font dirs are still listed, and only once. The old issue where there
would be two entries seems to be gone in the current version. E.g.,
previously:

/home/tim/fonts/Railog
/home/tim/fonts/Railog/

Would both be present. I was pretty sure this was just because I'd started
trying to use this capability before it was completely working on linux.
Looks like I was right.

> > As I mentioned the current ability is limited and clumsy from a font
> > management perspective. What we have is:
> >
> > 1. System fonts. Currently we're stuck with them.
>
> Oh, bother.

Well, Deron has heard both of us on the subject then.

What I would like would be to have a tri-state check box for each listed
directory. If the box is checked (default when adding a new directory) then
all contained fonts are available. If the box is unchecked then all contained
fonts are not available. The middle state would indicate that some fonts are
available. If clicking through settings I'm not sure it makes any sense to
allow the mixed state (I can think of cases, but I'm not sure from a use
standpoint that they make any sense). An additional font directory listing of
<system> would always be included and couldn't be removed, but it would have
the check box so that fonts included from the system could be disabled.

Additional capabilities that would be good.

1. Individual font activation
An additional button in the font requester to "manage individual fonts". When
clicked a requester being a list of the fonts contained in the currently
selected font dir would be displayed. Fonts could be enabled/disabled here
(which would of course potentially change the state of the check box for that
font dir). This would allow, for example, certain fonts included with the
system that break PgS to be removed. Note: SuSE includes several such fonts.
They work fine in other applications and may even display on screen in PgS,
but printing kills my printer (hard power reset required to recover). It
would really be best I they could be eliminated from the font list though
such means.

2. Automatic font activation
When loading a document if the font is not currently active it would (based on
a preferences setting defaulting to on) automatically be activated. Maybe the
preferences setting is superfluous, but making/wanting things customizable is
a habit of mine.

3. Script handling by state
The scripting call to get the list of fonts should default to only getting
active fonts. Keywords ACTIVE | INACTIVE | BOTH could be used to handle the
situation. E.g., printing a font list normally would be ACTIVE only, but
someone might want a listing of just the INACTIVE or perhaps BOTH.

4. Script handling by font dir
The scripting call to get the list of fonts should default to getting fonts
from all directories (filtered by state as above). Selection could be
specified by directory. This would be the font directory listed in PgS, two
key words SYSTEM (for the system fonts) and ALL (to get all font dirs).

5. Script call to get the list of font dirs
GetFontDirs() would return a list containing the font directories. Keyword to
allow subset collection: OFF | MIXED | ON | ALL. For example, to get a list
of only active font dirs GetFontDirs('ON'). I think 'ON' should be the
default state, though I can see an argument for 'ALL'.

> > 2. Fonts added through PgS. These can be enabled/disabled through the
> > font preferences dialog. More accurate would be add/remove directories at
> > a time. Because you don't have to restart PgS for the changes to take
> > place it works, but is clumsy.
>
> Apparently it works only for some users, and I ain't one of 'em. 8-(

Could you be more specific? As noted above it works here. Hopefully we can get
this straightened out.

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

> I deleted all my font dirs added in PgS, restarted PgS and verified that they
> were gone. This way I'm as close to being in your position as I can be.
> Adding the fonts this is what I got:

[snip]

Thanks for going to all that bother. I'm glad that there hasn't been an
'oops' in the latest version of PGS-Linux such that you ended up where I
am at this point.

TD>>1. System fonts. Currently we're stuck with them.

MW> Oh, bother.

TD> Well, Deron has heard both of us on the subject then.

Could be a while before he finds a reliable way to make fontconfig do
what we want done, or else finds a way to get around it entirely.

> What I would like would be to have a tri-state check box for each listed
> directory.

[snip]

Whew! Those capabilities would put any other graphics s/w I'm aware of
to shame (not that there aren't plenty of packages I've never played
with). Dream no small dreams, eh?
--
Mike Wilson

PageStream Support wrote:

> I think we are talking past each other.

Yep. Tim Doty and I seem to be having the same problem.

> When PageStream Linux runs, it loads all the fonts from the "system" font
> paths (actually it uses fontconfig), and to that list of fonts, it then
> adds everything you have added in the PageStream font prefs to that list.
> That is the list of fonts that is then displays to you in the font menu.

And there's the root of our misunderstanding: when I tried to add
directories of fonts in that familiar (from past experience with
PGS-Amiga) way that didn't happen: the 'system' list of fonts displayed
as-was in PGS5, with none of the 'new' font names I expected to see
visible anywhere (be they .ttf, .pfb/.fm; didn't matter). The
directories in question, located in my 'Home' directory for initial
testing, all contained fonts previously used with PGS-Amiga and known to
be 'working' in CorelDRAW under W2K.

> When you add a new font path in the PageStream font prefs, it adds those
> new fonts to the list of fonts displayed _in_PageStream_. It does _not_ add
> (or remove) any fonts available to the "system" (ie, other applications).

That's the behaviour I would expect.

> The changes you make in the PageStream font prefs only changes the fonts
> seen in PageStream.

If only. 8-(
--
Mike Wilson

On Thursday 16 March 2006 10:43 am, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Tim Doty wrote:
> > I deleted all my font dirs added in PgS, restarted PgS and verified that
> > they were gone. This way I'm as close to being in your position as I can
> > be. Adding the fonts this is what I got:
>
> [snip]
>
> Thanks for going to all that bother. I'm glad that there hasn't been an
> 'oops' in the latest version of PGS-Linux such that you ended up where I
> am at this point.

Well, I have daily incremental backups of my home directory and long term
historical backups of select locations. Not much risk and it helps determine
what is going on.

> TD>>1. System fonts. Currently we're stuck with them.
>
> MW> Oh, bother.
>
> TD> Well, Deron has heard both of us on the subject then.
>
> Could be a while before he finds a reliable way to make fontconfig do
> what we want done, or else finds a way to get around it entirely.

I'm reasonably certain he's not using fontconfig for his added fonts. If you
add them in PgS they are available only for PgS. Trying to write a font
manager for X Windows would be an insane nightmare. SuSE/KDE has gotten the
basic font management (add/remove fonts) to a reasonable point where you
don't have to restart the X server, but I don't see it getting any better
than that.

> > What I would like would be to have a tri-state check box for each listed
> > directory.
>
> [snip]
>
> Whew! Those capabilities would put any other graphics s/w I'm aware of
> to shame (not that there aren't plenty of packages I've never played
> with). Dream no small dreams, eh?

Well, I've no idea if/when Deron will implement, but as this font management
is inside of PgS it is at least feasible.

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

[snip]

> I'm reasonably certain he's not using fontconfig for his added fonts.

No, but with respect to the system font list there's no avoiding it.

> If you add them in PgS they are available only for PgS.

Fine by me: that's the only place I really want to use most of them.

> Trying to write a font
> manager for X Windows would be an insane nightmare.

Witness the 'insane nightmare' of font handling that is the current
state of the art in most distros.

> Well, I've no idea if/when Deron will implement, but as this font management
> is inside of PgS it is at least feasible.

And it does seem to be close: wouldn't you know it, after the initial
failure that prompted this sub-thread I fired up the Linux box again
this morning, started PGS, added a font directory ... and it worked. Now
I can go ahead and arrange my favorite fonts for use with PGS5 with some
confidence it's not wasted effort.
--
Mike Wilson