Hi, folks --

PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The readme
file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux versions and may
need to be transferred from a 32-bit install. However, a file search for
"liblinc" on my 32-bit machine (which also runs Ubuntu 6.10) comes up
dry, as does a search through a list of all the packages available for
Ubuntu, and on the Ubuntu Wiki website. A Google search locates plenty
of liblinc variants, including some for a64 architecture, but none as
old as the 1.0.0 mentioned in Deron's readme (and none for Debian or any
of its derivatives, like Ubuntu).

Nonetheless, PGSLinux 5.0.3.4 was installed and still runs just fine on
the 32-bit machine. I'm baffled (again; sigh).
--
Mike Wilson

On Monday 26 February 2007 11:57, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Hi, folks --
>
> PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The readme
> file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux versions and may
> need to be transferred from a 32-bit install. However, a file search for
> "liblinc" on my 32-bit machine (which also runs Ubuntu 6.10) comes up
> dry, as does a search through a list of all the packages available for
> Ubuntu, and on the Ubuntu Wiki website. A Google search locates plenty
> of liblinc variants, including some for a64 architecture, but none as
> old as the 1.0.0 mentioned in Deron's readme (and none for Debian or any
> of its derivatives, like Ubuntu).
>
> Nonetheless, PGSLinux 5.0.3.4 was installed and still runs just fine on
> the 32-bit machine. I'm baffled (again; sigh).

I'm afraid I have no direct experience with PgS on 64bit systems and right now
can't think of anything.

Tim Doty

Tim Doty wrote:

> I'm afraid I have no direct experience with PgS on 64bit systems and right now
> can't think of anything.

I set up the 64-bit system partly as an occasion to learn more about
Linux ... talk about getting one's wishes over-fulfilled. I've already
had to re-format and re-install once, and the m/b is only a month old.

Unfortunately, the guy with the answers (if you don't have 'em) is
probably Deron, and ATM he has other priorities.
--
Mike Wilson

--- In PageStreamLinuxBeta@yahoogroups.com, "Michael R.
Wilson" <wilsonmr@...> wrote:
>
> Tim Doty wrote:
>
> > I'm afraid I have no direct experience with PgS on 64bit systems
and right now
> > can't think of anything.
>
> I set up the 64-bit system partly as an occasion to learn more
about
> Linux ... talk about getting one's wishes over-fulfilled. I've
already
> had to re-format and re-install once, and the m/b is only a month
old.
>
> Unfortunately, the guy with the answers (if you don't have 'em) is
> probably Deron, and ATM he has other priorities.
> --
> Mike Wilson
Richard Crislip is the guy to ask here... I think he has it working
on his 64bit system...

On Monday 26 February 2007, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Hi, folks --
>
> PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The
> readme file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux
> versions and may need to be transferred from a 32-bit install.
> However, a file search for "liblinc" on my 32-bit machine (which
> also runs Ubuntu 6.10) comes up dry, as does a search through a
> list of all the packages available for Ubuntu, and on the Ubuntu
> Wiki website. A Google search locates plenty of liblinc variants,
> including some for a64 architecture, but none as old as the 1.0.0
> mentioned in Deron's readme (and none for Debian or any of its
> derivatives, like Ubuntu).
>
> Nonetheless, PGSLinux 5.0.3.4 was installed and still runs just
> fine on the 32-bit machine. I'm baffled (again; sigh).

Hi Mike,
I've got Pagestream 5.0.3.4Pro running on an opensuse10.2
64 bit system ( Intel core 2 duo)
with no problems. I just ran "locate liblinc" and the only files it
found were on the partition of another OS so it seems that this may
not be a hard requirement any more.

I would suggest re-naming your ~/.Pagestream* folders to temperarily
get them out of the way. Then try a fresh install of Pagestream so
there are no old files laying around.

Sorry I can't be more help but at least you know it's not a 64 bit
problem.

See ya

--
dh

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Monday 26 February 2007 18:48, admfubar wrote:
>
> Richard Crislip is the guy to ask here... I think he has it working
> on his 64bit system...

Well thanks for the kudos I just checked and it is working. All I did was
extract the tarball to a diractory and then create a desktop luncher linked
to the .run script in the extracted directory. Now that being said, I was not
able to get it running on my 64bit AMD laptop... go figure. It is running on
my AMD64 desktop. If that changes, I'll chime in again. I did get it to run
under SUSE on my laptop, but not Ubuntu 8-/ At least thats how I remember it.

richard wrote:

> Well thanks for the kudos I just checked and it is working. All I did was
> extract the tarball to a diractory and then create a desktop luncher linked
> to the .run script in the extracted directory.

That's the same way I've got it to run under 32-bit Ubuntu (from 5.10
on), installed in /usr/share.

> Now that being said, I was not
> able to get it running on my 64bit AMD laptop... go figure. It is running on
> my AMD64 desktop. If that changes, I'll chime in again. I did get it to run
> under SUSE on my laptop, but not Ubuntu 8-/ At least thats how I remember it.

Looks like I'll just have to futz around with install locations (it's
currently non-working in /home) and hope. 8-(
--
Mike Wilson

replying to my own message .... On the laptop I am running Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper on the desktop, I am running Unbuntu 6.10Edgy. I wonder if that may be part of the problem. 6.10 uses a newer version of the kernel. I'm very reluctant to upgrade, because I lost everything when I upgraded the desktop. The upgrade posted some dire warning messages about something that had to be upgraded very carefully and gave a URL for the instructions on how to do it. I went to the URL and got an "under construction" message 8-/. Sooo I am limited to Pagestream (back on topic now ) on the desktop with Linux Pagestream and Winderzs Pagestream on my laptop. The one thing that was a HUGE pleasent surprise for me was being able to once again use my old ProDraw clips with Pagestream 5.0.3.4. That may be old hat for all the rest of you, but it was a recent discovery for me. Also being able to import IFF clipart has been restored for me. I am happiiieeeeee )

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rcrislip wrote:

> On the laptop I am running Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper on the desktop, I am
> running Unbuntu 6.10Edgy. I wonder if that may be part of the problem.

Shouldn't be. As I mentioned, I've got PGSLinux running on Ubuntu 6.10
(32-bit) installed at /usr/share/PGS5 and encountered no new problems
compared to installing on 6.06. Any remaining problems (e.g. incomplete
display of the 'Insert Chr' panel) are known bugs in PGS itself.
--
Mike Wilson

On Monday 26 February 2007 5:08 pm, Tim Doty wrote:
> > PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The readme
> > file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux versions and may
> > need to be transferred from a 32-bit install.
Mike,
I think I had a hand in getting that comment in when I was just getting Suse
9.2 and PageStream together. My Amiga (with PageStream 1.8-3.x) died years
ago and I wanted to chuck Windows. Anyway, liblinc was still used with
Gnome, but 64-bit, so PageStream couldn't find a 32-bit one. Several people
gave me ideas on tools to do research myself. I have to reuse them from time
to time. I am now using Suse 10.2 on an Athlon 3000+, so you will have to
relate this, if possible, to Ubuntu. My only knowledge of Ubuntu is what I
have heard on this list. These commands have to be done with root or
superuser privileges on a console command line, to my knowledge.

1>ldd PageStream5Pro (Either make the current directory the one that
PageStream is in and use the program name, or use the full path to your
PageStream, including the program.
e.g.-- ldd /usr/local/PageStream5/PageStream5Pro)
This returns the Libraries which PageStream requires. You will probably
notice after carefully examining the necessary libraries, that PageStream no
longer requires liblinc.

2> ldconfig -v
This is a Konsole (under KDE?) command that lists all "set-up" libraries. I
think it also "sets-up" libraries, but I am no expert!

At one point, I even tried debug programs to single step into PageStream ....
that takes real will-power.

Again, I use Suse Linux 64, and I understand that Ubuntu superuser is much
different, so I do hope this can help.
--
No Jesus, No life. Know Jesus, Know life!  The beginning of Wisdom is
 the Fear of the Lord. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is
 eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!http://Quest4Life.net/glsmith/
http://MSGen.net/http://Quest4Life.net/http://JustForSomeone.com/

David Herman schrieb:

>On Monday 26 February 2007, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
>> Hi, folks --
>>
>>PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The
>> readme file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux
>> versions and may need to be transferred from a 32-bit install.
>> However, a file search for "liblinc" on my 32-bit machine (which
>>also runs Ubuntu 6.10) comes up dry, as does a search through a
>>list of all the packages available for Ubuntu, and on the Ubuntu
>>Wiki website. A Google search locates plenty of liblinc variants,
>>including some for a64 architecture, but none as old as the 1.0.0
>> mentioned in Deron's readme (and none for Debian or any of its
>>derivatives, like Ubuntu).
>>
>> Nonetheless, PGSLinux 5.0.3.4 was installed and still runs just
>> fine on the 32-bit machine. I'm baffled (again; sigh).

>Hi Mike,
>I've got Pagestream 5.0.3.4Pro running on an opensuse10.2
>64 bit system ( Intel core 2 duo)
>with no problems. I just ran "locate liblinc" and the only files it
>found were on the partition of another OS so it seems that this may
>not be a hard requirement any more.
>I would suggest re-naming your ~/.Pagestream* folders to temperarily
>get them out of the way. Then try a fresh install of Pagestream so
>there are no old files laying around.
>Sorry I can't be more help but at least you know it's not a 64 bit
>problem.

I had the same problem (missing liblinc on 64-bit-system) with Suse 10.2
(and Suse 10.0 either, AMD Athlon). My solution was to install a
programm from an older Suse (9.2) which used this liblinc (and was a
32-bit-version), and instantly PageStream did work... So a sort of a
64-bit-installation problem?

Thomas Schnabel

Thomas Schnabel wrote:
[snip]

> I had the same problem (missing liblinc on 64-bit-system) with Suse 10.2
> (and Suse 10.0 either, AMD Athlon). My solution was to install a
> programm from an older Suse (9.2) which used this liblinc (and was a
> 32-bit-version), and instantly PageStream did work... So a sort of a
> 64-bit-installation problem?

Could be, but there are two odd features: I have PGS running on a 32-bit
install of Ubuntu 6.10 that definitely lacks liblinc, and another 64-bit
Suse 10.2 user reports that same situation, i.e no liblinc but a working
PGS. Go figure.
--
Mike Wilson

On Monday 05 March 2007 15:08, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Thomas Schnabel wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > I had the same problem (missing liblinc on 64-bit-system) with Suse 10.2
> > (and Suse 10.0 either, AMD Athlon). My solution was to install a
> > programm from an older Suse (9.2) which used this liblinc (and was a
> > 32-bit-version), and instantly PageStream did work... So a sort of a
> > 64-bit-installation problem?
>
> Could be, but there are two odd features: I have PGS running on a 32-bit
> install of Ubuntu 6.10 that definitely lacks liblinc, and another 64-bit
> Suse 10.2 user reports that same situation, i.e no liblinc but a working
> PGS. Go figure.

It just occured to me that I *do* have access to a 64-bit linux system. I'll
try to get some time with it and see what I can come up with.

Tim Doty

On Monday 05 March 2007 4:50 pm, Tim Doty wrote:
> On Monday 05 March 2007 15:08, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> > Thomas Schnabel wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > > I had the same problem (missing liblinc on 64-bit-system) with Suse
> > > 10.2 (and Suse 10.0 either, AMD Athlon). My solution was to install a
> > > programm from an older Suse (9.2) which used this liblinc (and was a
> > > 32-bit-version), and instantly PageStream did work... So a sort of a
> > > 64-bit-installation problem?
> >
> > Could be, but there are two odd features: I have PGS running on a 32-bit
> > install of Ubuntu 6.10 that definitely lacks liblinc, and another 64-bit
> > Suse 10.2 user reports that same situation, i.e no liblinc but a working
> > PGS. Go figure.

On Monday 26 February 2007 5:08 pm, Tim Doty wrote:
> > PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The readme
> > file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux versions and may
> > need to be transferred from a 32-bit install.

The problem is that so far as I know, Deron eliminated the need for liblinc
and so the liblinc discussion is probably impertinent. I would want to find
the real problem, if possible. I had earlier written, but it seems not to
have made it to the internet, something like the following:

Several people gave me ideas on tools to do research myself into what problems
I was having.  I still have to reuse them from time to time.  I am now using
Suse 10.2 on an Athlon 64 2000+, so you will have to relate this, if
possible, to Ubuntu.  My only knowledge of Ubuntu is what I have heard on
this list.  These commands have to be done with root or superuser privileges
on a console command line, to my knowledge.

1>ldd PageStream5Pro  (Either make the current directory the one that
PageStream is in before executing and use the program name ~e.g.
PageStream5Pro~, or use the full path to your PageStream, including the
PageStream program.) e.g.-- ldd /usr/local/PageStream5/PageStream5Pro)
This returns the Libraries which PageStream requires.  You will probably
notice after carefully examining the necessary libraries, that PageStream no
longer requires liblinc.

2>   ldconfig -v
This is a command to use in a shell (Konsole under KDE?) that lists
all "set-up" libraries.  I think it also "sets-up" libraries after you have
added them in a script and run it, but I am no expert!

At one point, I even tried debug programs to single step into PageStream ....
that takes real will-power ... in order to find problems.

Again, I use Suse Linux 64, and I understand that Ubuntu superuser is much
different, so I do hope this can help.
--
No Jesus, No life. Know Jesus, Know life!  The beginning of Wisdom is
 the Fear of the Lord. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is
 eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!http://Quest4Life.net/glsmith/
http://MSGen.net/http://Quest4Life.net/http://JustForSomeone.com/

On Monday 05 March 2007 21:49, Gary Lee Smith wrote:
> On Monday 05 March 2007 4:50 pm, Tim Doty wrote:
> > On Monday 05 March 2007 15:08, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> > > Thomas Schnabel wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > > I had the same problem (missing liblinc on 64-bit-system) with Suse
> > > > 10.2 (and Suse 10.0 either, AMD Athlon). My solution was to install a
> > > > programm from an older Suse (9.2) which used this liblinc (and was a
> > > > 32-bit-version), and instantly PageStream did work... So a sort of a
> > > > 64-bit-installation problem?
> > >
> > > Could be, but there are two odd features: I have PGS running on a
> > > 32-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10 that definitely lacks liblinc, and
> > > another 64-bit Suse 10.2 user reports that same situation, i.e no
> > > liblinc but a working PGS. Go figure.
>
> On Monday 26 February 2007 5:08 pm, Tim Doty wrote:
> > > PGS refuses to run on my AMD 64-bit install of Ubuntu 6.10. The readme
> > > file says liblinc is often missing from 64-bit Linux versions and may
> > > need to be transferred from a 32-bit install.
>
> The problem is that so far as I know, Deron eliminated the need for liblinc
> and so the liblinc discussion is probably impertinent.

I believe you are correct.

> I would want to
> find the real problem, if possible. I had earlier written, but it seems
> not to have made it to the internet, something like the following:
>
> Several people gave me ideas on tools to do research myself into what
> problems I was having.  I still have to reuse them from time to time.  I am
> now using Suse 10.2 on an Athlon 64 2000+, so you will have to relate this,
> if possible, to Ubuntu.  My only knowledge of Ubuntu is what I have heard
> on this list.  These commands have to be done with root or superuser
> privileges on a console command line, to my knowledge.
>
> 1>ldd PageStream5Pro  (Either make the current directory the one that
> PageStream is in before executing and use the program name ~e.g.
> PageStream5Pro~, or use the full path to your PageStream, including the
> PageStream program.) e.g.-- ldd /usr/local/PageStream5/PageStream5Pro)
> This returns the Libraries which PageStream requires.  You will probably
> notice after carefully examining the necessary libraries, that PageStream
> no longer requires liblinc.
>
> 2>   ldconfig -v
> This is a command to use in a shell (Konsole under KDE?) that lists
> all "set-up" libraries.  I think it also "sets-up" libraries after you have
> added them in a script and run it, but I am no expert!
>
> At one point, I even tried debug programs to single step into PageStream
> .... that takes real will-power ... in order to find problems.
>
> Again, I use Suse Linux 64, and I understand that Ubuntu superuser is much
> different, so I do hope this can help.

root is root. I'm not particularly familiar with Ubuntu, but if they are
trying to follow the OS X model then you have a situation where a user is in
an admin group and expected to operate with somewhat less than actual root
privileges or use sudo. Other than modifying system libraries and the like,
root/admin doesn't matter. PgS runs just fine as a user level application.

The 64 bit systems I have access to are installed with SuSE 10.2 so I'm going
to see what it takes to get PgS installed on them first. One should be a
pretty clean install of SuSE, the other probably much less clean. After that
I will try one of the Ubuntu live disks to see how things go with that.

Depending on what happens I may be able to work on this tonight.

Tim Doty

Gary Lee Smith wrote:

> The problem is that so far as I know, Deron eliminated the need for liblinc
> and so the liblinc discussion is probably impertinent.

Weeellll ... I didn't really mean to be "impertinent" when starting this
thread.

> I would want to find the real problem, if possible.

Indeed. It does look like the 'liblinc' reference is a red herring,
unfortunately left in the PGS-Linux readme after it became irrelevant.

> I had earlier written, but it seems not to
> have made it to the internet, something like the following:

[snip]

> At one point, I even tried debug programs to single step into PageStream ....
> that takes real will-power ... in order to find problems.

Ugh. And is that how you tracked the no-run problem to missing links to
libraries?

> Again, I use Suse Linux 64, and I understand that Ubuntu superuser is much
> different, so I do hope this can help.

I'll surely try the steps you describe as soon as I am again in front of
the problematic machine (it's currently 350 Km away), and report
results. Ubuntu isn't all that different from other distros WRT
superuser, so it should be no problem to do what you've described.
--
Mike Wilson

On Wednesday 07 March 2007 9:59 am, Michael R. Wilson wrote:
> Ubuntu isn't all that different from other distros WRT
> superuser, so it should be no problem to do what you've described.
Mike,
I didn't mean to be offensive! The debug program is just how I found "where"
or what library was making the liblinc call. I hope I had a part in
making "liblinc" irrelevant, but Deron did all the work! And there might
still be some people out there using an older version, so it might still be
needed?
The two console/shell superuser programs are the diagnosis tools I used to
find libraries (ldd) missing. One of them (ldconfig) also sets up the system
to make the libraries permanently available, rather than having to use the
script, or so it seems in Suse. My concern was the two programs might not
exist (you may have to track them down, if they do.) or that some other
difference might make them not usable under Ubuntu.
Again, I hope they help.
--
No Jesus, No life. Know Jesus, Know life!  The beginning of Wisdom is
 the Fear of the Lord. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is
 eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!http://Quest4Life.net/glsmith/
http://MSGen.net/http://Quest4Life.net/http://JustForSomeone.com/

Gary Lee Smith wrote:

> Mike,
> I didn't mean to be offensive!

But note my smiley in the earlier message! I was just joshing you about
mis-use of "impertinent" in your message.

> The debug program is just how I found "where"
> or what library was making the liblinc call. I hope I had a part in
> making "liblinc" irrelevant, but Deron did all the work! And there might
> still be some people out there using an older version, so it might still be
> needed?

Could well be, but in that case the 'readme' still ought to match each
version's actual requirements, no?

> The two console/shell superuser programs are the diagnosis tools I used to
> find libraries (ldd) missing. One of them (ldconfig) also sets up the system
> to make the libraries permanently available, rather than having to use the
> script, or so it seems in Suse. My concern was the two programs might not
> exist (you may have to track them down, if they do.) or that some other
> difference might make them not usable under Ubuntu.

I haven't checked yet, but Ubuntu as an offshoot of Debian so it's
pretty mainstream at the grunt level. It's good to see that there are
ways around launching from Deron's script, too.

> Again, I hope they help.

Many thanks for the effort, regardless.
--
Mike Wilson

Okay, preliminary results. Unfortunately I only had root access on one system
and wasn't prepared with any live cds.

System 1: 64-bit AMD running SuSE 10.0 64-bit. I don't administer the system
so I can't say too much about it, but knowing the person who uses it and the
administrator it is likely *very* close to a clean install. What install
parameters? Hard telling, but KDE is the default desktop and the environment
I tested in. I extracted the 5.0.2.10 and 5.0.3.4 archives. Both versions ran
without incident. I created and printed (to a network printer) a trivial
printer.

System 2: 64-bit AMD running SuSE 10.2 64-bit. I don't administer this sytem
and there's a *lot* can't say about it. I was rather surprised to be using
the KDE environment (the user & administrator of this system dislikes KDE,
preferring Gnome, blackbox, Windowmaker, ICE, whatever and has a tendency to
install environments and applications of the day). Almost certainly not a
clean install, but then again I didn't think to check how long it had been
since the last reinstall ;^)

I hit a snag on system 2: it complained that libgnomeui was missing. Checking
I determined that the 64bit library was installed. I ran out of time at this
point and I'm not clear on some of the 32/64 differences. I believe it is
safe to install the 32bit version alongside the 64 bit (they live in
different directories). Can someone with a 64-bit system inform me? (Mty
google powers are weak it seems)

One other note: on system 1 I noticed Python was not available even though it
was installed. It didn't occur to me at the time to verify the 32/64 bit'ness
of the library.

I plan to do further checking, though it will have to be limited to SuSE 10.0,
SuSE 10.2 or live cds.

Tim Doty

On Wednesday 07 March 2007 6:04 pm, Tim Doty wrote:
> I hit a snag on system 2: it complained that libgnomeui was missing.
> Checking I determined that the 64bit library was installed. I ran out of
> time at this point and I'm not clear on some of the 32/64 differences. I
> believe it is safe to install the 32bit version alongside the 64 bit (they
> live in different directories). Can someone with a 64-bit system inform me?
> (Mty google powers are weak it seems)
>
> One other note: on system 1 I noticed Python was not available even though
> it was installed. It didn't occur to me at the time to verify the 32/64
> bit'ness of the library.

I have PageStreamPro 5.0.3.4 installed on an AMD Athlon 2000+ with both KDE
and Gnome installed, but I only use KDE environment. I recently had to clean
a disk and probably did a very unorthodox installation because of some 10.0
to 10.2 raid issues--I installed then "copied" my previous home directory and
copied the /usr/local/PageStream5/ directory, also. I may have had to run
ldconfig, but otherwise it ran. Previously, I had upgraded from 10.0 to 10.2
with no major issues.
Included as the 3rd library for PageStreamPro 5.0.3.4 on my system is
libgnomeui-2.so.0 => /opt/gnome/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0
The 64-bit libraries are in lib64, so this IS a 32-bit lib.
This libgnomeui-2.so.0 is a link to libgnomeui-2.so.0.1600.1 in the same
directory.
libgnomeui-2.so.0 -> libgnomeui-2.so.0.1600.1*

These packages require libgnomeui-2.so.0, the 32bit version:
eel-32bit The Eazel Extensions Library
gnome-desktop-32bit The GNOME Desktop API Library
gnome-panel-32bit The GNOME 2.x Desktop Panel
libgnomeui-32bit The GNOME User Interface Library
nautilus-cd-burner-32bit CD Burning Extension for Nautilus
So far as I could see from a Yast seach all the dozens of other packages use
the 64bit version on Suse 10.2 x86-64.
You might want to install one of the packages above...I would probably pick
libgnomeui-32bit, if I did not need any of the others.

Incidentally, Mike, this seems to be one of those "in the past" problems that
seems to have cropped up again, as, indeed, the liblinc problem might, also.

I hope it helps!

By the way, Tim, all of my programs mentioning Python were 64-bit, even the
Python-32bit interpreter....go figure. But it was a good idea!
--
No Jesus, No life. Know Jesus, Know life!  The beginning of Wisdom is
 the Fear of the Lord. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is
 eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!http://Quest4Life.net/glsmith/
http://MSGen.net/http://Quest4Life.net/http://JustForSomeone.com/