In 0.33 I tried small caps on a word with only capitals (caps) or uppercase.
It didn't seem to work.
I tried it on the acronym: PPPoA. It did change, but I didn't see what
changed.
So I looked if I could change anything, and there it strikes me:
I can only change lowercase... (Type Style/Set Type Style.../Small
Caps/other)

Now the word Small Caps says something about Uppercase who are smaller,
and nothing about lowercase.
And as far as I know Small Caps makes those uppercase words so, that
they don't
stand out in a sentence.

So, did I miss the point somewhere?

Theo

What do you mean with 0.33???
Frank

Theo Zweers schrieb:

> In 0.33 I tried small caps on a word with only capitals (caps) or
> uppercase.
> It didn't seem to work.
> I tried it on the acronym: PPPoA. It did change, but I didn't see what
> changed.
> So I looked if I could change anything, and there it strikes me:
> I can only change lowercase... (Type Style/Set Type Style.../Small
> Caps/other)
>
> Now the word Small Caps says something about Uppercase who are smaller,
> and nothing about lowercase.
> And as far as I know Small Caps makes those uppercase words so, that
> they don't
> stand out in a sentence.
>
> So, did I miss the point somewhere?
>
> Theo
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129cc6dip/M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=groups/S=1706030429:HM/EXP=1097479036/A=2376776/R=0/SIG=11ldm1jvc/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/ydomains2004/index.html>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PageStreamWindowsBeta/
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Frank Baudermann wrote:

>What do you mean with 0.33???
>Frank
>
>Theo Zweers schrieb:
>
>
>
>>In 0.33 I tried small caps on a word with only capitals (caps) or
>>uppercase.
>>It didn't seem to work.
>>I tried it on the acronym: PPPoA. It did change, but I didn't see what
>>changed.
>>So I looked if I could change anything, and there it strikes me:
>>I can only change lowercase... (Type Style/Set Type Style.../Small
>>Caps/other)
>>
>>Now the word Small Caps says something about Uppercase who are smaller,
>>and nothing about lowercase.
>>And as far as I know Small Caps makes those uppercase words so, that
>>they don't
>>stand out in a sentence.
>>
>>So, did I miss the point somewhere?
>>
>>Theo
>>
>>
>>

PGS 5 or 4.0.1.33 for Windows! I missed the 1, sorry.
Just downloadable, if you didn't see it.

Theo

I thought, that you meaned this. But I've tried to find where 4.0.1.3.3
can be downloaded. On the usual place I find only PageStream 4.1.6.32
(11,167,254 bytes) dated September 22nd, 2004 for download.
Frank

Theo Zweers schrieb:

> Frank Baudermann wrote:
>
> >What do you mean with 0.33???
> >Frank
> >
>
>
> PGS 5 or 4.0.1.33 for Windows! I missed the 1, sorry.
> Just downloadable, if you didn't see it.
>
> Theo
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Frank Baudermann wrote:

>I thought, that you meaned this. But I've tried to find where 4.0.1.3.3
>can be downloaded. On the usual place I find only PageStream 4.1.6.32
>(11,167,254 bytes) dated September 22nd, 2004 for download.
>Frank
>
>Theo Zweers schrieb:
>
>
>
>>Frank Baudermann wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>What do you mean with 0.33???
>>>Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>PGS 5 or 4.0.1.33 for Windows! I missed the 1, sorry.
>>Just downloadable, if you didn't see it.
>>
>>Theo
>>
>>
Just click on through. Although it says september, if you log in you will see:

To download the full archive of PageStream5.0.1.33 Pro Windows
(13,154,528 bytes) dated October 6th, 2004

Cheers, Theo

Thank you, I saw that you are wright with PageStream5.0.1.33 Windows Demo.
But with PageStream4.1.6.33 we will perhaps have to wate a little bit.
At this time we receive the message:
'Sorry, the requested URL
/Secure/Windows/PageStream41/PageStream4.1.6.32min.zip was not found on
this server.'
Frank

Theo Zweers schrieb:

> Frank Baudermann wrote:
>
> >I thought, that you meaned this. But I've tried to find where 4.0.1.3.3
> >can be downloaded. On the usual place I find only PageStream 4.1.6.32
> >(11,167,254 bytes) dated September 22nd, 2004 for download.
> >Frank
> >
> >Theo Zweers schrieb:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Frank Baudermann wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>What do you mean with 0.33???
> >>>Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>PGS 5 or 4.0.1.33 for Windows! I missed the 1, sorry.
> >>Just downloadable, if you didn't see it.
> >>
> >>Theo
> >>
> >>
> Just click on through. Although it says september, if you log in you
> will see:
>
> To download the full archive of PageStream5.0.1.33 Pro Windows
> (13,154,528 bytes) dated October 6th, 2004
>
> Cheers, Theo
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129i1ql45/M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=groups/S=1706030429:HM/EXP=1097481543/A=2376776/R=0/SIG=11ldm1jvc/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/ydomains2004/index.html>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PageStreamWindowsBeta/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PageStreamWindowsBeta-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailtoageStreamWindowsBeta-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Theo:

> ...In 0.33 I tried small caps on a word with only capitals (caps) or
> uppercase.
> It didn't seem to work....

Small caps should convert lowercase letters into "small caps" as it
says, and leave uppercase letters full-size. That is, all the resulting
text should be in caps but the original capital letters should be taller
than the "lower case" ones. This has never worked in PageStream. There
are fonts specifically for small cap use and I believe the Open Type
format supports small caps variants within the character table itself.
However, I don't have any small cap fonts to see if the Small Caps
option will invoke that font. In any case, the vast majority of Small
Cap work is done using standard fonts and capitalizing and shrinking the
lower case letters and PageStream should do that. The last beta I
downloaded still didn't.

> ...I tried it on the acronym: PPPoA. It did change, but I didn't see what
> changed.

Any difference probably wouldn't show in "PPPoA" because the uppercase
"O" wouldn't really look noticeably different from the lowercase
version. Something like "PPpoA" would show the difference clearly.

HB

Henry G Belot wrote:

>Theo:
>
>
>
>>...In 0.33 I tried small caps on a word with only capitals (caps) or
>>uppercase.
>>It didn't seem to work....
>>
>>
>
>
>Small caps should convert lowercase letters into "small caps" as it
>says, and leave uppercase letters full-size. That is, all the resulting
>text should be in caps but the original capital letters should be taller
>than the "lower case" ones. This has never worked in PageStream. There
>are fonts specifically for small cap use and I believe the Open Type
>format supports small caps variants within the character table itself.
>However, I don't have any small cap fonts to see if the Small Caps
>option will invoke that font. In any case, the vast majority of Small
>Cap work is done using standard fonts and capitalizing and shrinking the
>lower case letters and PageStream should do that. The last beta I
>downloaded still didn't.
>
>
>
>>...I tried it on the acronym: PPPoA. It did change, but I didn't see what
>>changed.
>>
>>
>
>
>Any difference probably wouldn't show in "PPPoA" because the uppercase
>"O" wouldn't really look noticeably different from the lowercase
>version. Something like "PPpoA" would show the difference clearly.
>
>HB
>
>
>
I did chew on what you said, and I see that it is one way to look at this.
But what I thought that it makes those uppercase words at the same
height as the x-height of a character.
(x-height is the height of an a, c, e.... and a: x)

See
http://desktoppub.about.com/library/weekly/aa111999.htm
Here you find the next sentence:
"Small caps are uppercase (capital) letters that are about the size of
normal lowercase letters in any given typeface. Use small caps to make
text less obtrusive or to give it more emphasis.

When groups of uppercase letters appear together such as acronyms (NASA,
NASDAQ) or common abbreviations (AM, PM) the letters may grab more
attention than necessary because the eye is drawn to the "larger"
letters. When small caps are used instead -- SOHO, A.D., etc. -- they
are less obtrusive than the normal size capital letters.

While used to de-emphasize acronyms and abbreviations within a block of
text, headlines set in small caps can make the text stand out."

BTW: Small caps work in 5.0.1.33 (I was shown that 4.0.1.33 isn't ready
yet), but not the way expected it.

Thanks for your explanation,

Theo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

PGS Win 4.1.6.33 is available, it's just the link that's missing.
You can use the link for 4.1.6.32 and change "32" to "33".

It has many reported bugs fixed. Thanks, Deron.

Regards,
Ralf

--
Ralf & Anke Aßmann
rassmann@bigfoot.de

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Baudermann [mailto:baudi@onlinehome.de]
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 10:11 AM
> To: PageStreamWindowsBeta@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PageStreamWindowsBeta] About small caps
>
>
>
> Thank you, I saw that you are wright with PageStream5.0.1.33
> Windows Demo.
> But with PageStream4.1.6.33 we will perhaps have to wate a little bit.
> At this time we receive the message:
> 'Sorry, the requested URL
> /Secure/Windows/PageStream41/PageStream4.1.6.32min.zip was not found on
> this server.'
> Frank
>
> Theo Zweers schrieb:
>
> > Frank Baudermann wrote:
> >
> > >I thought, that you meaned this. But I've tried to find where 4.0.1.3.3
> > >can be downloaded. On the usual place I find only PageStream 4.1.6.32
> > >(11,167,254 bytes) dated September 22nd, 2004 for download.
> > >Frank
> > >
> > >Theo Zweers schrieb:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Frank Baudermann wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>What do you mean with 0.33???
> > >>>Frank
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>PGS 5 or 4.0.1.33 for Windows! I missed the 1, sorry.
> > >>Just downloadable, if you didn't see it.
> > >>
> > >>Theo
> > >>
> > >>
> > Just click on through. Although it says september, if you log in you
> > will see:
> >
> > To download the full archive of PageStream5.0.1.33 Pro Windows
> > (13,154,528 bytes) dated October 6th, 2004

Theo:

> ...But what I thought that it makes those uppercase words at the same
> height as the x-height of a character....

Hmmm. I've never seen small caps defined that way. The x-height part I
agree with, and I do frequently decrease the point size of acronyms in
my documents. But the definition I offered is common in software
applications including Microsoft Word among others and I think it's more
useful. Small caps as defined in your note and reference is easy enough
to do with styles or just by reducing point size in the edit palette.
Small caps as I've defined it is a pain in the butt when you have a
title or heading to deal with.

Here's a definition of small caps taken from "High Tech Typesetting" a
user manual published by Intergraphics, Inc. in 1986. This was a
typesetting service that allowed you to operate a professional "cold
type" typesetting machine by uploading a text file from a PC in the days
when PC personal publishing was barely in its infancy. FedEx delivered
the results to your doorstep within hours.

"Commands {as}, {xs}
Allow Small caps

Cancelled by {xs} or a typeface change {f___}....

Description Small caps are often used when you want something to be
in all caps but do not wish to have it look so large. Example: [not
reproducable here.] Caps and small caps are often used for book titles
in bibliographies and other such work---the first letter of each word is
in the regular size and the rest of the word is in small caps.
[Unreproducable example.]

The command... can be stated before the word(s) to be affected---the
initial cap is typed in all caps and the letters to be in small caps are
typed in lower case. Cancel with {xs}....

Notes 1. If the small caps command is in effect, everything typed in
capital letters will be of normal height, everything typed in lower case
letters will of small cap height. If small caps is in effect while you
are typesetting numbers, they will also be of small cap height. However,
symbols, punctuation, brackets, parentheses, etc. will all be of normal
height.

2. Note that you could get a similar effect by changing point sizes,
although of course, changing point sizes would cause everything after
the point size command to be smaller, not just the characters and numerals."

I think you can see from the two notes why I have lobbied for this
definition of small caps. It solves a bigger problem than just shrinking
capital letters to x-height does. Perhaps the Small Caps option in
PageStream could have an option allowing you to choose between the two
methods.

HB

I'm still uploading it. That is why nothing has been announced. It takes
several days (I started Friday...) to upload all the files.

>I thought, that you meaned this. But I've tried to find where 4.0.1.3.3
>can be downloaded. On the usual place I find only PageStream 4.1.6.32
>(11,167,254 bytes) dated September 22nd, 2004 for download.
>Frank
>
>Theo Zweers schrieb:
>
> > Frank Baudermann wrote:
> >
> > >What do you mean with 0.33???
> > >Frank
> > >
> >
> >
> > PGS 5 or 4.0.1.33 for Windows! I missed the 1, sorry.
> > Just downloadable, if you didn't see it.
> >
> > Theo

Deron Kazmaier - support@grasshopperllc.com
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.grasshopperllc.com
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Henry G Belot wrote:

>Theo:
>
>
>
>>...But what I thought that it makes those uppercase words at the same
>>height as the x-height of a character....
>>
>>
>
>
>Hmmm. I've never seen small caps defined that way. The x-height part I
>agree with, and I do frequently decrease the point size of acronyms in
>my documents. But the definition I offered is common in software
>applications including Microsoft Word among others and I think it's more
>useful. Small caps as defined in your note and reference is easy enough
>to do with styles or just by reducing point size in the edit palette.
>Small caps as I've defined it is a pain in the butt when you have a
>title or heading to deal with.
>
>

snip

>Notes 1. If the small caps command is in effect, everything typed in
>capital letters will be of normal height, everything typed in lower case
>letters will of small cap height. If small caps is in effect while you
>are typesetting numbers, they will also be of small cap height. However,
>symbols, punctuation, brackets, parentheses, etc. will all be of normal
>height.
>
>2. Note that you could get a similar effect by changing point sizes,
>although of course, changing point sizes would cause everything after
>the point size command to be smaller, not just the characters and numerals."
>
>I think you can see from the two notes why I have lobbied for this
>definition of small caps. It solves a bigger problem than just shrinking
>capital letters to x-height does. Perhaps the Small Caps option in
>PageStream could have an option allowing you to choose between the two
>methods.
>
>HB
>
>
Short answer:
I still can't see why your method (and others - like Microsoft Word) is
better. Maybe I'm a bit blind...
I mostly use Word for spelling correction, and I never have looked there
for small caps. But yes, they are using 'your' solution.
Why must the x-height of the lower case be higher? I'm using lots of
PPPoA, VoDSL, QoS. The o becomes an 0 if it gets higher.
I'm I nitpicking (if the caps drops in height, the o is getting
relatively larger)?
Your better solution is that Deron implements both...

In my documents in PGS I use Text Styles. So for every exception like
bold, italic I give PGS a direct instruction (not using Text Styles).
If I having with problems PGS wishes, I can export text as...

OK, I lost the reason why I'm trying to explain it.
Then is there anywhere I can see (SEE) what troubles I get when using
'my' solution.
For now I must set the textsize smaller, as I want caps at the x-height.

As you can see I'm a bit confused what I really want. And it maybe a
short answer, but it cost me a lot of time to explain.

Anyway thanks for confusing me ,

Theo

Theo:

> ...I'm using lots of
> PPPoA, VoDSL, QoS. The o becomes an 0 if it gets higher....

I see your problem, although I wouldn't regard "QoS" as needing Small
Caps in either sense.

> ...Your better solution is that Deron implements both...

I would not have agreed until this e-mail. But, yes, shift-clicking on
the "K" button could trigger a requester offering a choice between
"Change Case" and "Keep Case."

> ...for every exception like
> bold, italic I give PGS a direct instruction (not using Text Styles)....

I do the same. In my last message I was thinking of Character Styles,
but I wasn't specific because I've never used them. It just occurred to
me that they might allow you to do what you want, although I doubt it.
Maybe a Python script would. I haven't installed the Python editor or
whatever it is that let's you write your own scripts as yet. (I might
actually have it already. I just got a graphics program which uses
Python extensively and you're supposed to be able to edit scripts
freely.) But I'm not that far into the learning curve.

> ...For now I must set the textsize smaller, as I want caps at the
> x-height.

For that you could record a script and assign it to a function key even
without the Python thingie; i.e., "Reduce to 8 point," "Reduce to 10
point." That I have done for using "AM" or "PM" with times of day.

> ...Anyway thanks for confusing me ...

Hey, I'm good at that. Keep your wallet in your pocket; there's no
charge for that.

HB

P.S.: Oh, and by the way, I recommend this:http://www.rainmakerinc.com/
for spell checking. It works in all your Windows applications including
PageStream and Word. Keep just one dictionary (or set of dictionaries)
in one place and check your documents as you go (or later). The one
significant limitation is that it uses the Windows clipboard to keep
track of your text as you type. If you use the clipboard yourself, it
can become confused for a short while and report or miss errors at the
point where you accessed the clipboard.

HB

Henry G Belot wrote:

>Theo:
>
>
>
>>...I'm using lots of
>>PPPoA, VoDSL, QoS. The o becomes an 0 if it gets higher....
>>
>>
>
>
>I see your problem, although I wouldn't regard "QoS" as needing Small
>Caps in either sense.
>
>
Those were just examples, but yes...

> <>...Your better solution is that Deron implements both...
>
>
>
>I would not have agreed until this e-mail. But, yes, shift-clicking on
>the "K" button could trigger a requester offering a choice between
>"Change Case" and "Keep Case."
>
>

Great, I finally did 'explain' it that I have troubles with this. Now on
for Deron to agree...

>
>
>>...for every exception like
>>bold, italic I give PGS a direct instruction (not using Text Styles)....
>>
>>
>
>
>I do the same. In my last message I was thinking of Character Styles,
>but I wasn't specific because I've never used them. It just occurred to
>me that they might allow you to do what you want, although I doubt it.
>Maybe a Python script would. I haven't installed the Python editor or
>whatever it is that let's you write your own scripts as yet. (I might
>actually have it already. I just got a graphics program which uses
>Python extensively and you're supposed to be able to edit scripts
>freely.) But I'm not that far into the learning curve.
>
>
>
>>...For now I must set the textsize smaller, as I want caps at the
>>x-height.
>>
>>
>
>
>For that you could record a script and assign it to a function key even
>without the Python thingie; i.e., "Reduce to 8 point," "Reduce to 10
>point." That I have done for using "AM" or "PM" with times of day.
>
>
>
I never did that, but I must try it one day...

>
>HB
>
>P.S.: Oh, and by the way, I recommend this:http://www.rainmakerinc.com/
>for spell checking. It works in all your Windows applications including
>PageStream and Word. Keep just one dictionary (or set of dictionaries)
>in one place and check your documents as you go (or later). The one
>significant limitation is that it uses the Windows clipboard to keep
>track of your text as you type. If you use the clipboard yourself, it
>can become confused for a short while and report or miss errors at the
>point where you accessed the clipboard.
>
>HB
>
>
>
Great, I look into that.

Anyway, thanks...

Theo

Hi Theo,

I thought I should respond some to this thread.

> >Theo:
> >
> >>...But what I thought that it makes those uppercase words at the same
> >>height as the x-height of a character....

This is not that useful in mixed case words. Your examples of PPPoA and
VoDSL and QoS work only because the lowercase letter in this case does not
extend above the x-height.

PPPiA for example would not look so nice formatted as you ask. The old
"smallcaps" mode would be more useful in that all letters made uppercase
and all letters having the new size applied.

Deron Kazmaier - support@grasshopperllc.com
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.grasshopperllc.com
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

PageStream Support wrote:

>Hi Theo,
>
>I thought I should respond some to this thread.
>
>
>
>>>Theo:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>...But what I thought that it makes those uppercase words at the same
>>>>height as the x-height of a character....
>>>>
>>>>
>
>This is not that useful in mixed case words. Your examples of PPPoA and
>VoDSL and QoS work only because the lowercase letter in this case does not
>extend above the x-height.
>
>PPPiA for example would not look so nice formatted as you ask. The old
>"smallcaps" mode would be more useful in that all letters made uppercase
>and all letters having the new size applied.
>
>
>
>Deron Kazmaier - support@grasshopperllc.com
>Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.grasshopperllc.com
>PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows
>
>
As you did see on the thread I have some doubts also.
But what should I do:
- make each word, for which I want this, smaller (that is a lot of work
(250 pages with lots of acronyms))...
I have the whole text under a style.
If I want it bold, I use B; if I want it italic I use I; and if I want
it small caps then...
Only the lower case respond. And that is not what I want.
- must I make a new style with a smaller height (I don't think that's
what small caps are for)

See what I am puzzeling with. And I didn't had small caps until now. New
feature, new problems...

What do you mean with old "smallcaps"? Was there one with my point of view?
Or did Henry G. Belot make you do the 'wrong' version of small caps ?

Theo

Theo,

PGS Amiga had the type of small caps that Deron decribed. They
weren't very convenient for me. I very much prefer the new version.

Regards,
Ralf

--
Ralf Aßmann
ralf@asanra.de

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theo Zweers [mailto:tjzwrs@xs4all.nl]
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 6:32 PM
> To: PageStreamWindowsBeta@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PageStreamWindowsBeta] Re: About small caps
>
>
>>>>>...But what I thought that it makes those uppercase words at the same
>>>>>height as the x-height of a character....
>>
>>This is not that useful in mixed case words. Your examples of PPPoA and
>>VoDSL and QoS work only because the lowercase letter in this
>case does not
>>extend above the x-height.
>>
>>PPPiA for example would not look so nice formatted as you ask. The old
>>"smallcaps" mode would be more useful in that all letters made uppercase
>>and all letters having the new size applied.
>>
> As you did see on the thread I have some doubts also.
> But what should I do:
> - make each word, for which I want this, smaller (that is a lot of work
> (250 pages with lots of acronyms))...
> I have the whole text under a style.
> If I want it bold, I use B; if I want it italic I use I; and if I want
> it small caps then...
> Only the lower case respond. And that is not what I want.
> - must I make a new style with a smaller height (I don't think that's
> what small caps are for)
>
> See what I am puzzeling with. And I didn't had small caps until now. New
> feature, new problems...
>
> What do you mean with old "smallcaps"? Was there one with my
> point of view?
> Or did Henry G. Belot make you do the 'wrong' version of small caps ?

Ralf Aßmann wrote:

>Theo,
>
>PGS Amiga had the type of small caps that Deron decribed. They
>weren't very convenient for me. I very much prefer the new version.
>
>Regards,
>Ralf
>
>--
>Ralf Aßmann
>ralf@asanra.de
>
>
>
>
Ralf,
I still have a very old Amiga version working on my pc (with Amiga
forever), but I didn't look for that for years.
And I didn't tried small caps then...

But what would you do in my situation.
If you try small caps 'your way', they aren't small caps in my opinion.
So what is the advantage in the way PGS (and Word) and you do this?
Persuade me, show me (and not only Ralf!).

Anyway thanks for replying.

Theo

Theo,

Advantage of the "new" small caps for me is, that I can apply small caps to
existing text and get text in upper case, but the original case is still
reflected in the character size.

BTW - did you already test custom super- or subscript (press SHIFT while
clicking on super- or subscript)? You should be able to get the effect you
want this way, too. But well, you still need more clicks or a special style
if you use it.

Just looked into help of PGS Amiga 4.1.5.8. It says that "small caps forces
text to upper case" - which it didn't do. PGS Win 4.1.6.3x is the first
version I know that does this.

Deron: Should small caps make upper case text smaller when deselecting
"lower case only" in the custom small caps dialog? This check box currently
seems to make no difference. And what is the difference between "default
small caps" and "default titling caps"?

Regards,
Ralf

--
Ralf Aßmann
ralf@asanra.de

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theo Zweers [mailto:tjzwrs@xs4all.nl]
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 8:48 PM
> To: PageStreamWindowsBeta@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PageStreamWindowsBeta] Re: About small caps
>
>
>> PGS Amiga had the type of small caps that Deron decribed. They
>> weren't very convenient for me. I very much prefer the new version.
>
> Ralf,
> I still have a very old Amiga version working on my pc (with Amiga
> forever), but I didn't look for that for years.
> And I didn't tried small caps then...
>
> But what would you do in my situation.
> If you try small caps 'your way', they aren't small caps in my opinion.
> So what is the advantage in the way PGS (and Word) and you do this?
> Persuade me, show me (and not only Ralf!).

Deron,

Custom settings (at least for superscript) are lost when text is exported to
an editor.

Regards,
Ralf

--
Ralf Aßmann
ralf@asanra.de

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ralf Aßmann [mailto:ralf@asanra.de]
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 9:48 PM
> To: PageStreamWindowsBeta@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PageStreamWindowsBeta] Re: About small caps
>
>
> Theo,
>
> Advantage of the "new" small caps for me is, that I can apply
> small caps to existing text and get text in upper case, but the
> original case is still reflected in the character size.
>
> BTW - did you already test custom super- or subscript (press
> SHIFT while clicking on super- or subscript)? You should be able
> to get the effect you want this way, too. But well, you still
> need more clicks or a special style if you use it.
>
> Just looked into help of PGS Amiga 4.1.5.8. It says that "small
> caps forces text to upper case" - which it didn't do. PGS Win
> 4.1.6.3x is the first version I know that does this.
>
> Deron: Should small caps make upper case text smaller when
> deselecting "lower case only" in the custom small caps dialog?
> This check box currently seems to make no difference. And what is
> the difference between "default small caps" and "default titling caps"?
>
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
> --
> Ralf Aßmann
> ralf@asanra.de
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Theo Zweers [mailto:tjzwrs@xs4all.nl]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 8:48 PM
> > To: PageStreamWindowsBeta@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [PageStreamWindowsBeta] Re: About small caps
> >
> >
> >> PGS Amiga had the type of small caps that Deron decribed. They
> >> weren't very convenient for me. I very much prefer the new version.
> >
> > Ralf,
> > I still have a very old Amiga version working on my pc (with Amiga
> > forever), but I didn't look for that for years.
> > And I didn't tried small caps then...
> >
> > But what would you do in my situation.
> > If you try small caps 'your way', they aren't small caps in my opinion.
> > So what is the advantage in the way PGS (and Word) and you do this?
> > Persuade me, show me (and not only Ralf!).
>

Ralf Aßmann wrote:

>Theo,
>
>Advantage of the "new" small caps for me is, that I can apply small caps to
>existing text and get text in upper case, but the original case is still
>reflected in the character size.
>
>BTW - did you already test custom super- or subscript (press SHIFT while
>clicking on super- or subscript)? You should be able to get the effect you
>want this way, too. But well, you still need more clicks or a special style
>if you use it.
>
>Just looked into help of PGS Amiga 4.1.5.8. It says that "small caps forces
>text to upper case" - which it didn't do. PGS Win 4.1.6.3x is the first
>version I know that does this.
>
>Deron: Should small caps make upper case text smaller when deselecting
>"lower case only" in the custom small caps dialog? This check box currently
>seems to make no difference. And what is the difference between "default
>small caps" and "default titling caps"?
>
>
>Regards,
>Ralf
>
>--
>Ralf Aßmann
>ralf@asanra.de
>
>
No need to change small caps, Deron!!

The word that changed my opinion is 'lower case'.
So you need a lower case word and change that in small caps, that's the
trick.

And I took a uppercase word and changed that in small caps, and that
didn't change a bit.
Only a word with a lower case character did change a bit, meaning the
lower case did change.

Thanks Ralf (and Henry)

(I look into shift super- subscript later)

Theo

Ok, I had some fun with this last night. Too tired to work on the real
problem before me, so I took a stab at this. I fixed the custom "lowercase"
option in smallcaps so you could have just the lowercase letters made
uppercase and "resized", or everything "resized" (plus lowercase made
uppercase obviously).

Then I got to thinking about your strange requirements. So I changed the
lowercase only checkbox to a popup that lets you choose between "All",
"Lowercase Only", "Uppercase Only", "Not Lowercase", "Not Uppercase". For
letters, Lowercase Only and Not Uppercase is the same thing, but numbers
etc are affected differently.

Not sure how useful it will be, but it is pretty flexible.

Deron

>Theo,
>
>Advantage of the "new" small caps for me is, that I can apply small caps to
>existing text and get text in upper case, but the original case is still
>reflected in the character size.
>
>BTW - did you already test custom super- or subscript (press SHIFT while
>clicking on super- or subscript)? You should be able to get the effect you
>want this way, too. But well, you still need more clicks or a special style
>if you use it.
>
>Just looked into help of PGS Amiga 4.1.5.8. It says that "small caps forces
>text to upper case" - which it didn't do. PGS Win 4.1.6.3x is the first
>version I know that does this.
>
>Deron: Should small caps make upper case text smaller when deselecting
>"lower case only" in the custom small caps dialog? This check box currently
>seems to make no difference. And what is the difference between "default
>small caps" and "default titling caps"?
>
>
>Regards,
>Ralf
>
>--
>Ralf Aßmann
>ralf@asanra.de
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Theo Zweers [mailto:tjzwrs@xs4all.nl]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 8:48 PM
> > To: PageStreamWindowsBeta@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [PageStreamWindowsBeta] Re: About small caps
> >
> >
> >> PGS Amiga had the type of small caps that Deron decribed. They
> >> weren't very convenient for me. I very much prefer the new version.
> >
> > Ralf,
> > I still have a very old Amiga version working on my pc (with Amiga
> > forever), but I didn't look for that for years.
> > And I didn't tried small caps then...
> >
> > But what would you do in my situation.
> > If you try small caps 'your way', they aren't small caps in my opinion.
> > So what is the advantage in the way PGS (and Word) and you do this?
> > Persuade me, show me (and not only Ralf!).

Deron Kazmaier - support@grasshopperllc.com
Grasshopper LLC Publishing -http://www.grasshopperllc.com
PageStream DTP for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh, and Windows

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

PageStream Support wrote:

>Ok, I had some fun with this last night. Too tired to work on the real
>problem before me, so I took a stab at this. I fixed the custom "lowercase"
>option in smallcaps so you could have just the lowercase letters made
>uppercase and "resized", or everything "resized" (plus lowercase made
>uppercase obviously).
>
>Then I got to thinking about your strange requirements. So I changed the
>lowercase only checkbox to a popup that lets you choose between "All",
>"Lowercase Only", "Uppercase Only", "Not Lowercase", "Not Uppercase". For
>letters, Lowercase Only and Not Uppercase is the same thing, but numbers
>etc are affected differently.
>
>Not sure how useful it will be, but it is pretty flexible.
>
>Deron
>
>
>
Am I a happy person? I think so!
Really making time for me (only worries for the too tired - I play a
game or watch film, or... and you ...).

But was the requirements so strange?
I must admit that other persons think different, but my idea of small
caps is ... small caps
(and not lowercase being capitols). That was the only idea! I had never
before any ideas
about this.

So, with help from Henry and Ralf, I finally figured out that lowercase
characters become,
small, caps. And I thought, mmmm it's workable.
So I tried it and went right for straight acronyms with no 'lower case'
in it (PTP) - first make lowercase,
then make small caps -, but an annoyance with lower case in (VoIP) -
make lowercase, then smal caps,
then make the lowercase (the o in VoIP) real lower case. That's very
time-consuming, not to think about RSI.

My only remark is, that the assignment must be simple and not confuse us
with too many options.

Thank you Deron, I'll wait for the next update,

Theo